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RazzleDazzle Regular user Minnesota 107 Posts |
In what order did you learn these false deals?
Second Bottom Center Once you learned these, did other moves or techniques you do change? (your grip, DL,s etc?) |
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jcigam Special user Bellevue, Nebraska 512 Posts |
Learned Seconds, first, then Bottoms (really, I am still learning them everyday). Never bothered to learn Centers. Somewhere in ECT it mentions how centers are not practical for a magician and in the years I have been working (which is a rather humble #) I have never found any reason to put the time into learning them.
By the way, I am not saying Centers are not worth learning they just weren't/aren't for me. I never really changed much from the handlings that you will learn in ECT. I think the grip has to be adjusted a little here and a little there for everyone as well as how you deal. In esence the handling remains the same. Jered
"The mind has exactly the same power as the hand, not merely to grasp the world, but to change it."
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owen.daniel Inner circle England 1048 Posts |
It is commonly known that the Centre deal is the hardest to learn of the three. I am currently learning the 2nd, and it seems to be the easier between that and the bottom (I have tried to learn the bottom deal). This I suppose would be expected because you are just taking the card from the second from the top, which isn't that different from the top, whereas the bottom deal is on the other side of the deck.
owen |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Peculiar logic, Owen.
Actually, as you practice, you will find that the bottom is easier than a second. There are more frictional surfaces at war when dealing a second, so the card either gets hung up, or other cards come along with it when second dealing. With the bottom, the card, depending on the method you are using, is practically free floating, so dealing is unhindered by the other cards. Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
They are considered to be hard to do.
But with practice and with work they can be done. How long it takes anyone to learn them depends on the person and their ability. And the deal and grip and take they use. After you learn what you want to know the person can look aback and see that it wasn't really that hard.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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owen.daniel Inner circle England 1048 Posts |
Pchosse,
I am sure your logic is correct after practice. As I said before I am only really learning the second, and therefore, my knowledge is as limited as my practice of the bottom deal. It just seemed logical that this was the case...To me... owen |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I feel that it is important to learn the grip - take and practice dealing cards from the grip and the take before you learn the deal.
Though some people say to learn the deal and then make your real deal look like the bottom or second deal that you have learned. So there are two schools of thought... I learned a second deal before I learned the bottom because I had a use for it. That is also one of the things with me. Most things I learn because I have a need or a use. Thinking about how the move is going to be used can be a great help in learning to do the move.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Chris Thibault Elite user Massachusetts 469 Posts |
I learned bottom's first, then seconds (and still learning). Havn't even attempted center's yet.
-Chris
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Still working on the seconds after all these years.
Glen, how do you retain the grip of the dealing thumb. I can only do second deals after moistening my right thumb, then after a few cards they begin to loose the tackiness. any suggestions. Should I sand my thumb with an emery board or something? If I can fix this problem , I'll be on my way to practicing my bottoms. Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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jcards01 Inner circle Waterloo, IL 1438 Posts |
I think you will find that most people learn what they need first.
I had a need for seconds and that is what I developed first. Then came bottoms and then centers. But, to this day, centers are rarely used. I still believe bottoms is one of the most overlooked sleights for magic.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
www.jimmycards.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Rannie
If you look at the footage of jack pyle I have at my web site. I think he has a habbit of licking his thumb quickly before he strikes a second to mosture the thumb. Some times when you perform your hands can be quite dry. In the winter I have the problem of that my hands dry out and I use cream on the hands with alo in it every two or three days to help the problem. The other thing is the grip. Grip the deck lightly but firm. If you hold the deck to tight it is harder to deal seconds. I hope this helps...
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Peter Woerde Regular user The Netherlands 107 Posts |
I first learned the second deal. I held the deck in mechanics grip. Then I worked on learning the bottom deal in master grip, didn't like it and stumbled upon Gene Maze's book The Art of Bottom Dealing. I learned the bottom deal using his grip and then I relearned the second deal using that same grip.
That's why I think the second deal is easier to learn when you first start. From every grip it can be learned quite easily, while for the bottom deal, most people have to work on the grip as well before mastering it. I now also do the greek deal from the same grip. I learned that for two reasons, first reason was because I figured it would be cool. Second reason is the same as Glenn Bishop mentions, I had a use for it. I haven't found a use for the center deal yet, so I haven't been working on that, although I still think it would be cool if I could do it. Peter |
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Alewishus Inner circle parts unknown 1226 Posts |
Bottoms, then centers, then finally seconds - though I could deal a second I never really practiced it until I had put a lot of time into the others, especially the bottom deal. Now I belive - at least for me - they all need constant tweaking and have their own problem areas.
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper. |
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Thanks Glenn!
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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bumbleface Elite user 434 Posts |
Here are my ratings:
Hard Harder Not Worth It |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
It's extremely rare that I disagree with Mr Chosse, but in this case I have to say that I think a workable/useable second deal will come easier to most people than a workable/useable bottom deal. Having said that, I don't dispute that an excellent second deal may be more difficult to acquire than an excellent bottom deal.
The center deal is in a class by itself. Oddly enough, due to constant practice with the Greek deal, I find it (Greeks) easier than bottoms in many instances, although I don't claim that this will be the case for others. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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DaveM Special user Germany 788 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-10 13:37, rannie wrote: On one of his videos, Martin Nash suggested the use of "sort quick" on the thumb. It helps out TREMENDOUSLY. I highly recommend it. Dave |
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Craig Krisulevicz Special user Philadelphia, PA 647 Posts |
There are so many subtleties involed with any false deal. These things are a great reminder of what practice should be; learning by a constant analysis of your work combined with integration of your learning to be examined again and again, not just merely repetition.
Don't worry about who's doing what. Pick a deal, and start working on it. And follow Jimmy's advice; learn what you need. $
Who is John Galt?
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Tielie Special user 749 Posts |
First I learned a strike second, which I didn't find that hard, then the bottomdeal. That took me months to get it good enough to pass at a cardtable (i tried it on my friends, but I didn't know what cards were on the bottom ).
But now I decided to re-learn the bottomdeal because in the method I used, the topcard wasn't pushed of the deck, the deck stayed squared and it didn't look really good. I am slowly getting the erdnase deal in my fingers, at least how I think he ment it Now I practise a double pushoff second deal. I find it quite hard but the videoclips by Dennis Behr keep me going. That guy has one *** good second deal. In between, I gave centerdealing a go. I didn't have a proper learning source, so it was like bottomdealing only with a break between two packets. I tried it only for showing of, haven't found a use for it yet. (there are some clips at my site http://www.kingofclubs.tk of me doing some false deals, so you can check out my "skills". It'll take some years to get them where I want them, but practise is fun )
Deal cards, not drugs!
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I do not diss-agree with anyone on how the deals should be done. Or which deal is harder. To me it doesn't matter which deal is harder or which deal is more effective or useful to another magician.
Magic and moves are a personal thing to me. And what I feel is useful someone else may not feel as useful. We all have our own way of doing things. There is no right or wrong opinion or a way of doing things... And that is what makes magic interesting.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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