|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2020, ed wood wrote: Any effect performed close-up -cards or no-will be perceived as a trick unless you have previously established credibility as a mind reader with the spectators. |
|||||||||
Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
Ed wood, if I google richard osterlind and bob cassidy, the first page I get is wikipedia, the second is penguinmagic and then vanishinginc. Does this make them magicians? I get what you mean by you shouldnt be associated with magic but isn't it only natural that when you search the names of mentalists who are also creators that the sites they sell on pop up? I tried the same with banachek and max maven, there it wasnt until the fourth result that the magic sites started popping up. But they were still on the first page.
Martin pulman could you explain more why you think that? I do not say you are wrong (I don't have enough knowledge to do that) I just don't understand it. I get that close up card perfomances scream magic but ANY close up performance? Also I would appreciate if someone would explain why street perfomances would be automatically viewed as magic. Derren brown performed a lot on the streets and (while I know some on here don't consider him a mentalist at all) I think in the public eye he is one of the most believable mentalists currently performing. I can see how it is way harder with the psychic approach to perform ambush but with a body language, psychologie or perfect memory approach it doesn't seem that unlikely that someone with that ability just thought to himself "hey why not try to perform on the street and get some change for it" Again, I don't say anyone of you is wrong, I just cant follow your logic. Dylan |
|||||||||
Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
Derren Brown didn't perform on the streets. He filmed a tv show on the streets. There is a massive difference. When he performed as a table-hopper he included magic tricks in his set, it wasn't pure mentalism. I saw him perform that set before he was on tv. It was a mix of mentalism and conventional magic -much of it using cards. You seem to be confusing people filming on the streets for a TV show or to sell their latest effects with literally just performing on the street. If you were actually capable of reading minds do you think people would expect you to be busking?
|
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
...or just walking up to people randomly to perform?
|
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2020, Dylenium wrote: I know you addressed Martin with this, but I will share a live public experiment I have now done several times receiving the exact same 100% results each time. Rather than retype the whole thing, and to give you some premise and context, here is another Café thread where I discuss this (as well as cards in mentalism) that may be helpful in your question and understanding. It's about midway down the page, although you may find the entire thread applicable and interesting: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=27 This really applies to street, ambush and even walkaround, strolling or tablehopping as in restaurants (attempting to perform mentalism). I have believed and understood this for years, but it has opened many's eyes to magic "mentalists", "mind readers" and mental magic performers within the magic community. |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2020, Dylenium wrote: In the examples you use above these people are not coming up as performers but rather creators and producers of products serving the magic community. All of these guys have multi-faceted business operations. They are entertainers, but they also have other interests such as releasing and selling their experience to the magic community. Some also do speaking and lectures, consulting, work other mediums, etc. each a separate and individual component of their business operations (this is also what I specialize in). So what you are getting in results of your searches is not for their PERFORMING, but rather as their sales of products aspect of their business to the magic industry as creators. They also work quite hard separating this from their performing in the real world (not just the magic community). |
|||||||||
Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
Thanks Martin and Mindpro.
The reason that its different when filming a Tv show makes sense to me. Also the post you linked to was very informative mindpro, thanks! As I said I too believe that no psychic would do street performance, I also agree that it doesn't fit to any persona to do table hopping. I still think a body language expert could come over as genuine when performing on the street, since this is something many lable as learnable ability. And there can be seen many people with many different learnable abilities "performing" on the street. Is it artist, musician, juggler or puppeteer. I even once saw someone knitting with a hat before them (I have no idea who would give money to that but it happened). I can (and probably am) be wrong of course. And either way it would be hard to sell. But while reading your post I thought about stage performences. Everyone has to start at some point, and I cant imagine why a psychic should go to a open mic night or something like that. I know there are whole books about this topic, but what would be an example of a starting point that doesn't automatically make you a magician? This can also be interesting for OPs original question. Dylan |
|||||||||
watkins13 New user 78 Posts |
Hey Kleqy,
In regards to the line you have seen me use on my videos - the fact is it just works for me. Derren talks in Pure Magic about introducing himself as a 'Kind of Magician', which is how I usually go about it both on the street and at the gigs I do. It is my opinion that the performance will speak for itself. In other words, even if you introduce yourself as a magician (at least to get interest and not appear as threatening, while avoiding out-right challenges) the demonstrations will win them over in the end. This is also why it is possible for a Mentalist to give a very clear disclaimer at the beginning of their performance and STILL get people asking them to talk to their dead relatives after the show. This has been true in my experience and in my observation of other performers I know. But it is just my opinion. Hope that helps a bit. -Watkins |
|||||||||
ed wood Special user 742 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2020, Dylenium wrote: Simple answer is yes. I knew Bob fairly well and had this discussion with him many years ago. At the time the internet wasn't the all seeing all knowing oracle it is today and he wasn't that concerned. I'm fairly sure if he was starting to release effects now he would do so under another name. The older generation (the names you mention) started releasing effects long before the internet so I wouldn't be so critical of them. No matter who you are and how you perform, if a google search shows you selling magic tricks to magicians on the magic Café you're a magician. A few of the younger generation have chosen to use pseudonyms, those who don't, no matter what they tell their audiences, whether they claim to be psychic entertainers or psychological illusionists will be tarred with the magic brush with a simple google search. Within a second you will go from being a genuine mind reader to at best a mental magician. Your audience will know you've lied to them. Goodbye repeat bookings. |
|||||||||
watkins13 New user 78 Posts |
Meant to say Derren's 'Pure Effect' my bad..
-Watkins |
|||||||||
kleqy Regular user 105 Posts |
Hey Watkins,first of all I wanted to say I am a big fan.
Alright so,I once watched a movie called THE ILLUSIONIST.It was about one psychic guy(genuinely psychic in the movie) who kept getting hit,after hit,after hit to the point where he was taken to the police station so they can interview him.He said that everything he does is just tricks but they still didn't believe him. In my opinion,if someone says he is a magician or like a mind magician and does effects that only psychics are capable of doing or in other words strong mentalism, he would benefit from:: 1-He is not going to get challenges that will put him in bad situations 2-The audience will most likely see him as a psychic who is claiming that he is a magician so he does not get in trouble because of his supernatural abilities that they just saw because there is no other possible explanation,think about that. |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Just a side-thought. The term "mind-reader" has negative connotations for many, ranging from fear to mangled images from Hollywood and TV.
No one wants someone probing their secret life and revealing their lies. Many, like myself, would never want to read another's mind and be bogged down in the drivel their consider important stuff. Many people equate mind-reading with psychics or psychiatrist - or eBay "gift selected just for you." However, most folks are intrigued with telepathy: sending messages from afar, empathic awareness, image impressions, mental influence, etc. They will accept that some telepathy is possible under controlled circumstances with no fear that their secrets will be probed. So, how do you present yourself as one who can be a tour guide into "telepathic demonstrations" with full cooperation of an audience? How do you create an expectation of a paranormal ability made manifest while avoiding confused expectations of trickery of "too much to be true?" I don't think you have to introduce yourself as anything - just focus on what you will demonstrate. Your ego may need a label - your performance does not. Or, is the concern what to but on flyer or ad to attract ticket buyers? No matter what you claim there may be a problem with "bait and switch" for some in any audience. I just fell that the term "mind-reader" should be avoided.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2020, kleqy wrote: Your opinion wrongly assumes that magicians never get challenges and wrongly assumes that what one claims or labels himself as affects how audiences view him. That latter dynamic is far, far more dynamic than the assumptions you are making. |
|||||||||
watkins13 New user 78 Posts |
Kleqy,
I think that's a good example of what I was trying to get across. When Kent Axell and I did our cross-country performance and lecture tour, we did a very to-the-point disclaimer at the beginning of every show and it was crazy to see the responses afterward. It does seem to be true that people will believe what they want to believe after all. -Watkins |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » How to introduce yourself as a mind-reader? (4 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |