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Glenn Watson Special user 781 Posts |
I realize the intent of each of the 2 is different.
Lately in an effort to sell I have seen the secret,routine,name and variations demonstrated on you tube. Is there any difference between the two except intent? The site in question has no password and is open to anyone , on you tube. It is one thing if done by the creator but by shops? Even if a discount is offered , is the trick now worth less due to a less secure secret? |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
A less secure secret?
Magic shops have been prostituting secrets for centuries. All the internet does is makes them available to a wider array of people. Magic secrets have never actually been secret. Magicians pretend they are. But literally anyone with the money desired by the shop could always buy the supposed secret. Nothing in the world is less secure than a "magic secret". In the 21st century this manifests itself in the way you describe. It "should" not be done. But it can't really be stopped. And yes magic effects are not worth as much when you can find out how to do them for free instead of purchasing. It indeed devalues them. My point is that this is not new.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Glenn Watson Special user 781 Posts |
Thanks for the great reply.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Can't add much to Danny's words except that the "real secrets of magic" are pushed further into the background,
with new folks conditioned to believe that the "secret" of the gimmick or sleight is the essential part of a good magic effects. There used to be some validity to people observing a magic effect and trying to "figure it out" - a mental exercise that can fuel creativity, or at least imagination. Now they look things up on the Internet and pretend they have figured something out. No mental stimulation and devaluing of the original experience. So, the exposure is bad because of its easy access as well as the "reveal." The proliferation of exposure is bad enough. The proliferation of bad magic is worse. Of course, poorly performed magic effects is the greatest exposure of all - again encouraged by the "anyone can do it, buy today, perform tomorrow" message.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I have always thought the real secrets of magic are things like "we learn our craft from each other, but we learn our art from our audience".
The real secrets of magic for me anyhow have almost nothing to do with methodology. To me, and it is only one man's opinion, the secret is equivalent to a craftsman's hammer. Yes he needs one, and a good one is better, but in the end the skill and dedication of the craftsman is indeed what brings the art to life. The hammer itself is a mere tool. Magic secrets (An absurd term.) are tools. And when other tools are used properly the audience can KNOW the secret and either not care or not notice. I have always thought if they are sitting there wondering ONLY about the mechanics of an effect that my presentation might need some work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
Any secret is only as secure as the ones who know, which is why the best kept secret is the one you keep alone... unless you also can't keep a secret.
Performances in a video are enough to reverse engineer it. If you try to sell a secret, but want it to stay a secret... you're a fool. Intellectual property needs a lot of laws because people suck at keeping secrets! If that crap even worked you might not even know what a Microsoft was. Proving the other end of intellectual property. Hook claimed at least 2 of Newton's things, and being a genius himself was often enough believed. We would consider Tesla an inventor and Edison just another guy who employed geniuses. Today most people don't even know who are behind the Tesla Cars... forget who Tesla was (he wasn't involved in the cars). He died alone, broke in a room and "Edison created the light bulb". Don't trust nobody, don't teach nobody, don't trust nobody. And never trust anyone with a secret, Particularly since you clearly can't keep it when you sell it or show it. Not that you shouldn't have the right... but you simply don't have the capacity.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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David Todd Inner circle 2328 Posts |
To get back to the original post regarding "DEMO" vs. "EXPOSURE , a YouTube Search for "Tommy Wonder Vanishing Bird Cage" turned up these three videos among the search results. In the end the "Demo" video and the "Exposure" accomplished the same thing in devaluing the Performance in the first video. It shows a lack of common sense to post demos with that sort of detailed information as Public videos instead of taking the simple step of posting it as an Unlisted video.
Click here to view attached image. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
One may demonstrate an effect, or a tool-in-action without exposing beyond naming the item online.
You could name your videos in such a way as to make them easily searchable but not using any term of art related to actual methodology. Up to you Secret is not the same as difficult, valuable, or scarce. Quote:
On Jan 25, 2021, Glenn Watson wrote: To a publisher or seller in a market - perhaps. If you know it exists - it's not much of a secret
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2021, Dannydoyle wrote: This idea hit me like a ton of bricks many years ago when I was doing my cards-and-doves act. After studying every book on magic showmanship I could find (there were a few at the time, mostly written by professional stand-up performers), I began to notice how my audience was responding while I was doing my act. If I could see them, I watched them; if I was on stage in a theater, under a spotlight, I could listen to them. Either way, I learned a heckuva lot by doing this. Of course, I had rehearsed and practiced that act so much I could do it in my sleep, so I could afford to pay attention to the audience. That's how I could make tiny little adjustments as I went: a beat here or a speeding up there, or stretching something by two seconds if they really liked it. It all really became fun when I began to notice patterns in their responses and learned how to do some audience manipulation. For instance, I had this bit where I produced a dove and then placed it in a paper lunch bag, inflated it, and walked right up to the footlights, holding the bag, smiling and looking at the house. It took them a few seconds to realize what I was going to do, so suddenly it was deathly quiet in the place. At just the right moment (for them), I stopped smiling, the live music stopped, I nodded slightly a couple of times, took a beat, and burst the bag and crushed it. Gasps and such all over the place. When they started dying down, I tossed the bag up in the air. When it got to the top, the music started again, fast. I caught it, smiled again, and played with it for a bit. Applause. Suddenly I noticed a white "something" poking out of the bag and stopped smiling, like what the heck is this. The applause stopped. OMG, did this guy just kill the bird? Then I pulled on it, and it was a large white silk. Smiled again and the applause (and lots of relieved laughs) picked up again. Then I went on with the next bit. And this was all done silently except for the music, and took maybe thirty to forty-five seconds depending on the audience. That whole bit worked because I was watching the audience all the time, responding to them, and leading them on. Since those days, I have seen so many acts where the performer is in his or her own world, seemingly totally unaware of the audience. They may look at the people out there, but so often it's like, "hey, lookit how clever I am." So yeah, Danny, we can learn a lot from our audiences if we're willing to do so.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
When anyone asks if I get advice on my show I smile and simply say “every night”.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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