The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » An idea that might be impossible (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

JonHackl
View Profile
Regular user
Western Australia
106 Posts

Profile of JonHackl
My son helps me evaluate tricks as I put them in my repertoire. Could he figure it out? Did he enjoy it? In fact, several of my kids do this, but this son in particular posed an interesting problem to me.

He said it would be interesting to have a trick, some aspect of which the spectator only notices later in their memory and at that time gets puzzled by it. I told him I don't think that's possible. If this aspect of the trick were interesting enough for them to remember it later and be puzzled, presumably it would be interesting enough to notice it at the time and be puzzled then. But it's quite an idea.

I told him I thought the only way you could approximate this is by having a later development in the trick. Say (as a fairly trivial example) you bring a chosen, signed card to the top a few times and then fail on your last try. It's not at the top, nor the second, third, etc. You check the whole deck and it's gone. But later that day (or week, or whatever) they find the card in their pocket or car or something.

But this is not what he suggested. He wondered if you could complete a trick in someone's presence, so that they take away all the information they're going to get about the trick after that one encounter. But there's some aspect of the trick which they will not notice (or are very unlikely to notice) at the time, but they will remember (or will be likely to remember) later, and then they'll be puzzled.

I don't think this is possible, but it's a fascinating idea. I hesitate to dismiss it outright due to my lack of experience in magic, but theoretically I don't think it can happen. Hence, the reason for this post. Can such an effect be achieved?
"Magic is the only kind of entertainment where 90% of the audience is trying to ruin it for themselves." - Pete Holmes
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9032 Posts

Profile of funsway
Here is one that might work. Get a bunch of split key rings. Link two together and secure with super glue.

During your performance show two separate rings and drop them in the spectator's hand. When they open their hand the rings are linked -
a gift they can take home. It will only be magical or a puzzle since they know the rings can split, but "impossible" to do so fast.
If the rings were solid they would know some trick is involved.

Later they will attempt to get the rings apart to explore the puzzle or mystery. When they can't do it,
they will be drawn back to the performance where the linking occurred in their hands. The memory will be of magic.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
JonHackl
View Profile
Regular user
Western Australia
106 Posts

Profile of JonHackl
Hey, that's really good. In a sense the "impossible object" they take home is like a reminder of the experience, and the great likelihood is that they'll try to figure it out. It's not exactly what the boy was suggesting, but it's hard for me to imagine a closer approximation. Some kind of physical souvenir to remind and re-spark curiosity seems like the closest to the idea, since there's an actual re-experience of magic rather than merely a memory. I think that's the kind of effect he had in mind... an element of magic that they experience in the memory, not just a memory of magic they experienced in the moment.
"Magic is the only kind of entertainment where 90% of the audience is trying to ruin it for themselves." - Pete Holmes
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16239 Posts

Profile of tommy
I think it is an interesting idea. I can’t think of one.

The only thing that springs to mind is when I do card to the ceiling, I tell the company as long as they are thinking of the card it will stay up there; a sort o lasting effect you might say.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3528 Posts

Profile of Pop Haydn
Quote:
On Jan 26, 2021, funsway wrote:
Here is one that might work. Get a bunch of split key rings. Link two together and secure with super glue.

During your performance show two separate rings and drop them in the spectator's hand. When they open their hand the rings are linked -
a gift they can take home. It will only be magical or a puzzle since they know the rings can split, but "impossible" to do so fast.
If the rings were solid they would know some trick is involved.

Later they will attempt to get the rings apart to explore the puzzle or mystery. When they can't do it,
they will be drawn back to the performance where the linking occurred in their hands. The memory will be of magic.


Excellent idea.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16239 Posts

Profile of tommy
I think there is something similar in the big book of rubber band magic.

https://www.murphysmagic.com/Product.aspx?id=42020
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3528 Posts

Profile of Pop Haydn
Gaeton Bloom had a routine where two solid chain links link together and are past out. His method would work beautifully with this.
weirdwizardx
View Profile
Veteran user
390 Posts

Profile of weirdwizardx
It is indeed a beautiful and excellent idea Funsway!
Ill try it out some day!

I just remembered, I do a routine of a bent coin. The times Ive done it has a similar effect. Every time I see that person, he recalls that time were I bent the coin with my mind. He was bamboozled, and every time that bamboozlement is bigger.

Quote:
On Jan 27, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
Gaeton Bloom had a routine where two solid chain links link together and are past out. His method would work beautifully with this.


What is the name of it?
Pop Haydn
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3528 Posts

Profile of Pop Haydn
Don't remember. It was in one of his lecture notes.
ChrisPayne
View Profile
Regular user
UK
180 Posts

Profile of ChrisPayne
This is a great question. If our aim is to produce a memory in the spectator that actually burns brighter with time (the Tamariz comet) then your son has intuitively hit on one way of doing this. I agree though that having something inconsequential gain extra significance after the tricks over is difficult because the spectator's memory is likely to have edited it out.
I think there are several ways the increasing intrigue can happen from something apparently inconsequential.
First the inconsequential action can be made memorable for an apparently casual reason - so the performer takes out a bunch of coins, looks for a large one, and asks if anybody has one he could borrow. He then passes a cigarette through it. Done correctly it would feel impromptu, even random, but the fact the coin was borrowed will remain as a key niggle in the memory. Similarly throwing a ball into the audience and bouncing it up into the gods could be justified as a way of making sure all parts of the audience have a chance to participate, but the real reason is to show the memory that the spectator is not a stooge.
Problem is we love, as performers to ram these facts down the audiences throat "there is no way we could have colluded - right?" Whereas sowing the seeds quietly could be much more potent.
ChrisPayne
View Profile
Regular user
UK
180 Posts

Profile of ChrisPayne
I'm not a fan of long posts, so I'll try and keep ideas short(ish)
I suspect your son's original question was prompted from the experience of seeing a film with a complex plot, that prompts discussion afterwards in the car on the way home or on social media "did you notice x and y" - a film also has the advantage of being able to watch again. A particular example of this could be the "MacGuffin" - favoured by Hitchcock, a small or inconsequential action that either never makes sense or only does so at the end ("Rosebud")
Another type of post show/play discussion is when the performance has several layers of meaning, that unfold with thought and discussion, or prompt connections with personal experience or current affairs. Attempts by magic shows to do this are usually clumsy - as Pop Haydn said something to the effect "Magic is a fragile flower and will break under too much load". However really artistic presentations can get close (Del Gaudio, Derren Brown)
Magic that takes the effect out into the real world after the show gets close, the glued together split key ring is a good example, or Del Gaudio's brick, or the email that I received after the Copperfield show with a link to a show specific image.
In a 2 man show I did 12 months ago we pegged chosen cards, Magic square numbers and other items to a clothes line. At the end we asked a spectator to take out a 20 pound note that he had signed and loaned earlier and to read out the serial no. - it matched the sequence of numbers on the line. How much more intriguing (but less showy) would it be for something personal to be taken home by every member of the audience - they then realise that the memento matches, say, their car registration.....
I can imagine there could be a programme of magic, comprised of tricks that have full impact in their own right, the show builds to a satisfying climax, but the show as a whole (choice of effects, underlying themes or plots, character of performer, design of set / props) when reviewed in the memory trigger links or appreciation that has been missed at first view.
So - what we are after is emotional or intellectual afterburn......
funsway
View Profile
Inner circle
old things in new ways - new things in old ways
9032 Posts

Profile of funsway
Great thoughts, Chris. Please don't keep your flame hidden beneath a basket. We all need this kind of input (or reminder).
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
JonHackl
View Profile
Regular user
Western Australia
106 Posts

Profile of JonHackl
Thank you so much, everyone. The effect he had in mind is like a memory time bomb. In it's purest form, I suspect it's not really possible. The idea that a remembered detail would later detonate in a new level of surprise... I think it would be hard to do that without the detail being noticed in the first place. But a lot of these ideas are very close approximations.

Interestingly, he made the comment after I got his feedback on Bullet Train. I recently subscribed to Genii and found Tighe's Lemon Pie in Dealing with It. I wondered if it would be overkill to do Lemon Pie followed by Bullet Train. I tried it on one of my daughters first. Not only was it not overkill, but she was increasingly surprised and amused (outright laughing) each time the Aces showed up earlier than she expected.

(My kids, by the way, are tough to impress with any magic, let alone card tricks)

So I showed it to my son. He liked the routine and only figured out one of the tricks, Syncopated Aces. But it was right after I got his feedback on this routine that he got thoughtful for a moment and then sprung that question on me. I don't know what if any connection there is. Maybe because in Bullet Train (and Lemon Pie), the magic moment comes before you expect it, that he got to wondering if you could push a magic moment to way after the point you expect it.

It seemed like a pretty profound idea, so I thought I'd float it here. I'm glad I did!
"Magic is the only kind of entertainment where 90% of the audience is trying to ruin it for themselves." - Pete Holmes
weirdwizardx
View Profile
Veteran user
390 Posts

Profile of weirdwizardx
Quote:
On Jan 27, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
Don't remember. It was in one of his lecture notes.


Ohh ok, thanks anyway.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » An idea that might be impossible (4 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL