The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Muscle Reading (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Yaniv Deautsch
View Profile
Special user
Israel
529 Posts

Profile of Yaniv Deautsch
I'm talking about people i've read of.
Newmann,Kalada etc...

Yaniv Deautsch
Thoughtreader
View Profile
Inner circle
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
1565 Posts

Profile of Thoughtreader
One of the best muscle readers I ever saw was a Russian performer (FISM award winner in fact), Vladimir Danilon. He learned his craft while the Iron Curtain was still in place and as such, his approach and techniques were not as conventional as some others.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Canada's Leading Mentalist
http://www.mindguy.com
AB StageCraft
http://www.mindguy.com/store
fordkross
View Profile
Loyal user
209 Posts

Profile of fordkross
Quote:
On 2002-07-27 02:00, christopher carter wrote:
This will sound odd to most, although I suspect that those who practice contact mind-reading on a regular basis will second it when they hear. One of the more useful ways to understand contact mindreading is to study stage hypnosis. The opening lecture, selection of volunteers, and the means of increasing the range (or perhaps 'intensity' might be a better word when it comes to muscle reading) is remarkably similar between both crafts.

Those of you who haven't yet gotten up the nerve to try it in a show situation, you will find that it is vastly easier in the context of a stage performance than it is when you are practicing with friends. This is true for the same reasons that stage hypnosis works so quickly.

Finally, Satori's book is very good, no doubt Banachek's will be excellent, but my personal favorite is Stanton Carlyle's Master Mentality. In it, he describes a really functional approach to practicing the skill in a real show. If you can find the book, get it.

--Christopher Carter


I second what Chris (if I can call you Chris) says the set up is really more important than the implementation. One other point, Ted Karmilovich say, and he is correct, that fear stops many from trying both CMR AND Hypnosis.
I salso agree Stanton, ( a fantastic person by the way Master Mentality seems to be a well kept secret. However, when it comes to what I call "the real work" CMR, cold reading, memory, magic squares, super normal stunts, read EVERY THING you can find. The good the bad, and in between. No "card man" (except maybe Andrus)would limit their resources. Why should mentalists
from
Ford
Ford has a better idea
MarkFarrar
View Profile
Veteran user
U.S.A.
376 Posts

Profile of MarkFarrar
I first tried this over 20 years ago, and it was just something you have to do - it's a bit hard to practise!

Having said that, my first few attempts were for friends and family, so it was a safe environment.

I was just asked to do it at some friends' house recently, for the first time in a long time, and, although I was a bit hesitant, it worked fine.

In summary, this is a useful weapon in the mentalist's arsenal, and it's completely impromptu.
Mark S. Farrar

Email: [email]MarkFarrar@TheMagicCircle.co.uk[/email]
Web: www.MagicSquaresBook.com, www.RandMPublishing.com, www.TheDailyGoalMachine.com, www.ParvoBuster.com
christopher carter
View Profile
Special user
660 Posts

Profile of christopher carter
Ford,

Of course you can call me Chris, all of my friends do. I'm just stuck with Christopher as a public moniker, due to the fact that I otherwise get mixed up with either the Minnesssota Vikings player or the man who produces the X-files.

Yaniv,

The only person I know of who actually saw Newmann do contact and non-contact work was Jay Marshall, and this account I only heard of indirectly. I have been told that Jay believed Newmann to be about the best he had ever seen. I know this doesn't quite answer your question, but it's the best information I have on the subject.

If one goes back to read the accounts of the early masters, JR Brown and WI Bishop, it's interesting to note that they failed a lot in challenge situations, that is when trying to "prove" their abilities to skeptical reporters. This is the same process as trying to hypnotize the person who says "I bet you can't hypnotize me."

The good news is that most of the time, the operator gets to pick and choose who he does his mind-reading experiments with. If one person isn't working out too well, drop them and try another.

--Christopher Carter (Chris's alter ego.)
Hal Weaver
View Profile
New user
56 Posts

Profile of Hal Weaver
Quote:
On 2002-08-18 07:19, christopher carter wrote:
The good news is that most of the time, the operator gets to pick and choose who he does his mind-reading experiments with. If one person isn't working out too well, drop them and try another.

--Christopher Carter (Chris's alter ego.)




Yes. This an important element of learning contact mindeading. If you set it up as an "experiment" to see if the participant can send thoughts to you, if you don't succeed, it takes the heat off you. And you can "test" the participant with some small tests that aren't as dramatic as dragging them around trying to find something in the room. I wrote a piece in an early MAGICK on this technique.

Hal
xersekis
View Profile
Special user
591 Posts

Profile of xersekis
The Satori book is good - I found it a little academic or dry. SB's book will be a winner if it includes some of the materials I have already seen - it will be quite a comprehensive and exciting book.

I know some enjoy the S. Carlise book.
There are some pretty extensive works.

Enjoy!
Rex
Luke Kerr
View Profile
Regular user
119 Posts

Profile of Luke Kerr
Quote:
On 2002-07-26 16:01, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
Muscle reading (or contact mind-reading) is one of the four essential skills of a mentalist. And thus, it's a mystery why I've never learned how to do it with enough proficiency to try it in the "real world."
.



What's the other three in your opinion?
Philemon Vanderbeck
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
4369 Posts

Profile of Philemon Vanderbeck
Cold-reading
Nail-writing
Equivoque
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
mysterium
View Profile
New user
Baltimore, MD
100 Posts

Profile of mysterium
Quote:
Cold-reading
Nail-writing
Equivoque


I'd toss billet work into the mix.
fordkross
View Profile
Loyal user
209 Posts

Profile of fordkross
[quote]On 2002-07-27 10:59, christopher carter wrote:
[quote]
It should be remembered that Nelson's account of the reception that Hellstrom received in the states was somewhat hyperbolic. That being said, I disagree slightly with the belief that a skeptic culture prevent exponents of cmr from being perceived as psychics today. The Russian fellow who was so good and who appeared on Letterman a few times, was billed as a psychic to nary a fuss from the skeptic world. And to put things in a historical perspective, the same 'real vs. not real' debate about CMR occured at its inception. John Randall Brown and Washington Irving Bishop both had to contend with a skeptical community who saw the physiological underpinnings of the craft. JR Brown embraced the scientific explanation, apparently deciding it legitimized his work. In fact, it does, I believe, and I talk about this when I do it in my show. Bishop, on the other hand, largely fought against the skeptics. In terms of attitudes toward this sort of thing, not that much has really changed.

Interesting, you bring up "that Russian fellow, the appeared on Letterman. You seem to not remember his name . Now, here is a man , who demonstrated a skill prized by mentalists on a national tv show. He appeared five or six times. I'm guessing, Letterman stopped having him on, because, they couldn't either expose or defeat him. Letterman IMO, hates, magic and magicians. He mainly has on magicians he can ridicule.
Except Penn and Teller who also hate magic and magicians
So we have a practicioner of CMR billed as psychic. He also appeared at the Castle, recieved National exposure, and few seem to know his name was Lev Schneider
from
Ford
Philemon Vanderbeck
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
4369 Posts

Profile of Philemon Vanderbeck
Quote:
On 2002-08-22 13:55, mysterium wrote:
Quote:
Cold-reading
Nail-writing
Equivoque


I'd toss billet work into the mix.


One could argue, that billet work is combination of cold-reading and the one-ahead principle (or straightforward peeking). The ability to do an invisible switch helps too.

The question is: Is the one-ahead principle an essential skill for the mentalist to possess?

Certainly one could do an entire billet routine without resorting to one-ahead, peeks, or switching... in fact, one could do it without billets!

But using cold-reading to get the answers to the questions posed is absolutely required to successfully pull off the routine.

Just my opinion...

:evilgrin:
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
Millard123
View Profile
Regular user
Millard Longman
170 Posts

Profile of Millard123
Quote:
On 2002-08-22 13:38, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
Cold-reading
Nail-writing
Equivoque


I like to do a lot of Nail-Biting when I use Equivoque in a Cold-Reading.

Millard
Millard Longman

See all my products at:
www.mevproshop.com
Sid Mayer
View Profile
Special user
Santa Fe, NM
656 Posts

Profile of Sid Mayer
Did you ever notice when driving that you can often anticipate when another driver is going to change lanes in front of you? What happens of course is that they're thinking about doing it and swerve almost imperceptably an appreciable length of time before actually taking action. This is simply another example of what some authorities call involuntary muscular reaction.

This is closely related to muscle reading, both contact and non-contact. The key to success is clues from the subject...and this means that the subject must be thinking hard about the objective...which, in turn, is highly dependent upon the operator's set-up of the "experiment." As in hypnotism, some subjects are better than others, but, for successful reading, any subject must be carefully chosen and properly conditioned.

Sid
All the world's a stage ... and everybody on it is overacting.
Darmoe
View Profile
Special user
Ohio
741 Posts

Profile of Darmoe
Sid... you had me worried there for a minute when discussing "contact mind reading" with cars moving down the road...

Learning the "one-ahead", though it is a great method, I don't feel to be one of the "big musts" of the biz. Possibly because my brain don't cooperate well in trying to get a quick memorization of info while talking to someone on a different topic altogether... (never could pat my head and rub my belly either...)

Profiling however, being able to size a person up and "know" their "type" should be on that list of "required knowledge" simply because of how many ways we can use it WITHOUT BEING A READER per ce'. Being a good judge of people helps our shows in that we can find the "right" personalities for doing key bits in the show... people we're confident, will give the kind of reactions we want. This skill helps off stage at the level of marketing and sales as well as interpersonal relationships, etc. Too, it is a skill we can teach others e.g. workshops that bring in the extra bucks when the shows aren't happening.

Equivoque... well, I do think this is a valuable tool and to best master it, we need to study political science and the art of the spin doctor... Smile

Nail Biting... well, I've been working really hard to NOT do that one... this is no easy matter in that I'm trying to quit smoking and a bunch of other "unhealthy" habits these days too... the Nail Biting may just come back into vogue Smile

Well, I'm going to get out on the highway and try that bumper to bumper contact mind reading thing Smile
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
christopher carter
View Profile
Special user
660 Posts

Profile of christopher carter
Quote:
On 2002-08-22 15:35, fordkross wrote:
Interesting, you bring up "that Russian fellow, the appeared on Letterman. You seem to not remember his name . Now, here is a man , who demonstrated a skill prized by mentalists on a national tv show. He appeared five or six times. I'm guessing, Letterman stopped having him on, because, they couldn't either expose or defeat him. Letterman IMO, hates, magic and magicians. He mainly has on magicians he can ridicule.
Except Penn and Teller who also hate magic and magicians
So we have a practicioner of CMR billed as psychic. He also appeared at the Castle, recieved National exposure, and few seem to know his name was Lev Schneider
from
Ford



Ford,

Thanks for the reminder on Mr. Schneider. I'm not sure it's worth drawing any larger conclusions from my failure to remember his name. I tend to write these things fairly late at night, and I'm noted for a pretty poor memory for names to begin with. I had the name available in the Satori book, and I should have looked it up.

For what it's worth, I've spoken to insiders who confirm your thoughts on Letterman. And as far as P and T go, while I won't go quite so far as to assert that they hate all magic and magicians, they do seem to hate the kind of magic and magicians that I like best. So it goes!

--Christopher Carter
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Muscle Reading (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL