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Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
@Memory-Jah
Man, what exactly is your problem? There's everything you need to know in this very thread! "The one by Wilson" is non existent, because he deals with other people's DL's on his tape. Buy the d*** tape and find out. The Ross Bertram Method is decribed in David Ben's "Tricks", which information you could have got from Denis Behr's index. |
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konjurer Veteran user Iowa 395 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-30 11:22, Memory-Jah wrote: I don't know why the original poster didn't explain but it looks like he moved on. I would guess that the "Wilson DL" is Martin Nash's Knock Out DL. Wilson states that is his favorite and it is the one I prefer most of the time. Get the DVD if you don't have it. It's one of my favorite DVDs. I have no idea about the other DL he was refering to.
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Clever stuff goes here! |
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-29 16:10, Harry Lorayne wrote: Mr. Lorayne: I know you have! You are one of my mentors (in print of course) and you have never steered me in any direction that would compromise the art Vlad |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
I'm probably going against the grain here but I shudder whenever someone says "You've got to be able to handle a double just like you would handle a single". When most of us handle actual single cards, we tend to sail them to the table, finger spin it, or some other similar non-verbal proving that the card is a single. You can't do that with a double!
So my best advice to all of you looking to improve your DL is to reverse conventional wisdom and handle a single as if it were a double. Pretend that it is a double and don't do anything with the card that you wouldn't normally do with a double. This can make your whole routine more consistent and less prone to being caught out with a double. Of course you can still do a finger spin here or there but it's funny to watch performers grab every single and flip them up in the air, because when they grab a double you immediately know it because they become instantly more cautious. And Whit, your routine is very entertaining and engaging. Well done, sir.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Stephen,
I would counter that it has more to do with context. If I am doing DDLT for instance, why WOULD I feel compelled to sail the card I am displaying? It would make no sense, especially in the context of a strolling situation. However, an off handed flick of a double is always disarming. And, you CAN toss a double - admittedly it IS hard and I have never felt the need to put in the time for it when I would use it so rarely - but I have seen magicians throw doubles so well it boggles. Then again, scotch was never one of my favourite drinks. Okay, seriously, I truly think it IS contextual. The idea of turning a double or a single also is the salient point. If however your argument is that we sail a single to "prove" then it begs the question once again of why run when you're not being chased? I want my false shuffles to look EXACTLY like the true shuffles. I want the DL/ML to look EXACTLY the same. I respectfully submit that consistency in handling is FAR more effective than over proving the obvious. I respect your point of course and hope it sparks some debate. Ahimsa, Vlad |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
My theory has always been:
Look at the sleight. Look at the real way. Then change each a little so they match as closely as possible. If you were to do this with a shuffle, for example, it would require you to change the way you normally shuffle cards a little. When I started doing shuffle work, I took into consideration what each shuffle I wanted to learn looked like and then took a serious look at my real shuffle. Then I made small changes in all of them until they looked almost exactly alike. SEY |
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
Vlad, Steven, you're both preaching to the choir here. Vlad, there's certainly nothing wrong with a flick here or there but it seems that for many magicians, they tend to go over the top to prove a single is a single but can't perform the same convincers when it's a double. My only point is that if you internalize that the single is a double then you will, as a matter of course, do far less proving and the handling will look far more comparable.
Steven, I don't remember where I first read that (and it quite likely was from you on this very forum) but I've followed that advice on a number of moves. A while back my push-through riffle started to look pretty good but it looked nothing like my regular table riffle. So, instead of changing the false one, I changed my real shuffle to look like my push-through. It's a pointer that can significantly improve nearly any sleight that you're working on.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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tvellalott New user melbourne, australia 54 Posts |
The only problem I've ever had with doing DLs is when the person already knows that 2 or more cards can be lifted as one. the layman never knows. I have however recently changed to a push-off dl, because you don't need to do a get-ready.
your sleights are always going to get better with practice and experience. misdirection is your friend. |
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tgold65 Regular user 194 Posts |
Ditto on the three posts above. Also, don't try to over prove the double. The assumption of the spectator is that you just turned over a card ( a single). If you over prove, then they will start to get suspicious. If you can really do a strike double or very consistent and convincing push off double without hesitation, the spectator will not think twice.
Lastly, if you have not looked at SEYs tutorial on the double lift, and you want to learn a great double, pay the man the $20 bucks for access to his website and a fantastic tutorial. You will be happy you did. It is like a private magic lesson, but it just happens to be over the web. Todd |
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oscarf Regular user 159 Posts |
Wow, this thread spans a good chunk of time! I think people are worried about their double because the spectators are burning their hands.
The truly great thing about Whit's routine, at least for me, is that I am engaged with the character and following the story, such as it is . I'm not looking for what's a DL or not. I think if any of us put the effort and performance-hours into developing a routine like that, complete with rhythm and character development, then what sleights we used would be the least of our concerns. It reminds me of my musician friends who think that a new guitar is going to help their playing. It only does if it inspires them to practice more. Any DL will do fine in the right hands - you probably don't need a new one. I know that's all been said before, but Whit's routine drove the truth of it home to me yet again. |
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Oscarf: As per Whit's post on Dec. 19th (at 8:08) and Aaron Fisher's on Dec. 29th - they refer to my ACR that I originally taught in my very first magic book back in 1962. If you want to check it out, it's re-written and updated, etc., in
The Classic Collection, Vol. 1. Best - HL. (It's also on one of my DVD volumes.)
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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MickeyPainless Inner circle California 6065 Posts |
The Classic Collection, Vol. 1 is the most used book in my library lately! Every time I open it I see something else that I swear wasn't there before!
MMc |
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ryanalewis New user 67 Posts |
Quote:
Every time I open it I see something else that I swear wasn't there before! Like Magic! Sorry, couldn't resist. I've been getting better and better over the past few weeks by doing my DL on the bus ride home/to work. I've noticed things I can do better and such. Now and then I get it perfect, and I think I've only got one card and have to do a second take! I agree with oscarf that the real key is that your managing your spec so that they aren't burning your hands off. As per Aarons video, when the hands come together they look... |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
Get ready for the get ready
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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oscarf Regular user 159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-15 10:46, Harry Lorayne wrote: Thanks so much for the reply, Harry. I have been a card magic hobbyist for over forty years now. When I was in high school, I would buy card magic books that I found in regular book stores, and some of them weren't too bad, but I would soon find out that I really knew nothing at all about card magic. One of the first things I did when I came from California to college in Connecticut in 1973 was to make the pilgrimage to Tannen's. There I purchased, on their advice, C-UCM. It changed my life! I drove the hour and a half home with this book, having no idea what I had purchased. I started reading it the second I arrived back, and ended up staying up all night, totally spellbound, and astonished at the secrets I was now entrusted with. The first two effects I learned, practiced, mastered and started showing off to my friends and anyone who would pay attention were Take Me To Your Leader and your ACR. Indeed, even after Daryl's video so many years later, and all kinds of other sidetracks, I still end up doing an ACR very close to your original, though with nowhere near the entertainment quality that Whit does his. C-UCM showed me what card magic could really be, and it provided me with routines that are forever burned into my muscle memory. I subsequently purchased everything you published (as well as tons of other card material) up until about 1985 when my life became impossibly busy with other things. Since then, my interest in card magic floods me in waves whenever I have a little down time. I have recently been surfing one of those waves, and catching up with what's been going on since the last one, which must have been about 2001. Anyway, thanks again for your reply, and thanks even more for your profound and timeless contributions to the art of card magic! Oscar |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-15 16:14, Memory-Jah wrote: I was referring to the DD Double lift (which itself is an evolution of a Ross Bertram idea): DD stands for Derek Dingle and is the first time this DL was published in the finished way that it assumed now. You can find it in several of Derek Dingle's work It is the same one that is demonstrated by Gregory Wilson as "Double Take" Camille Gaultier: La prestidigitation sans appareils. (1914) Gaultier credits l’Homme Masqué for the double lift, which he calls “card change by superposition”, but it was already in Roterberg New Era Card Tricks (1897), Ponsin had it already in print in 1853 and the sleight actually had appeared for the first time in print in 1716 The Merry Companion by Richard Neve. Ross Bertram Bertram on Sleight of Hand
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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DStachowiak Inner circle Baltimore, MD 2158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-14 10:27, Harry Lorayne wrote: Quote:
On 2009-12-13 23:28, Whit Haydn wrote: This is the DL I use most often, I think I learned the Leipzig one first, from Dai Vernon's lesson in "Stars of Magic", and later changed to this version when I read "Close Up Card Magic", as it just seemed to feel better to pick it up from the end than from the side, at least for me. One thing I retained from the Leizig handling was the audible "snap" on turning the card(s). I always feel like this helps sell the turnover as a single card. I have gotten into the habit of only doing three repetitions of the ACR before going to a "Card to Impossible Location" ending (varied according to the situation), but rereading Harry's routine for the first time in a long while has me rethinking this, as I think I'm missing a lot of opportunities for laughs. I suspect I originally shortened it out of laziness anyway! Don
Woke up.
Fell out of bed. Dragged a comb across m' head. |
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zkillion New user Nashville, TN 4 Posts |
From my experience I've come to find that the best compliment to a good double lift is good patter and solid routining, as with most sleights. If you can successfully engage the spectator in a flowing routine, they won't even think twice about what they've seen.
It may sound cliche, but it is what works. The double lift is a 'basic' sleight in the sense that it requires you to exercise most of the fundamental principles of magic to be truly successful. Confidence plays a major role. Confidence in the technique and the routine as a whole. If you learn to execute the DL as part of the routine and not just as a sleight that creates the effect you would not be wasting any time. Flow is a very important aspect of the move, as is timing. Know when the move is to be executed in the routine, and practice it until you can do it with such ease and naturalness that you could consider it to be second nature. Be confident. Be natural. (A good strike DL helps too) |
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread yet, but I think in many cases a good double lift should also include a very casual attitude. Most of the time you shouldn't be concentrating your entire attention on the turnover, but instead be focusing on the audience. I feel that if you concentrate too heavily on a motion, not only does it direct the entire audience's focus on the move, but it may also draw suspicion to the motion simply because you're focusing on a motion that most laymen do without having to think about it.
Of course often focusing on the cards identity is important in the trick, but why focus while you're doing the move? Instead try focusing on the card immediately after so the heat isn't on as strong while the turnover is taking place.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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mjanes New user Gig Harbor, WA 66 Posts |
There are oodles of examples of creating context (e.g., patter, movement, facial expression, situation management) in which the DL becomes invisible: the more skillfully the context is created, the less conspicuous other elements of the moment become. One such example of masterpiece performance, widely available on video, is Whit Haydn's "Chicago Surprise," especially the moment when he says, "You're not going to believe this..." and sets up the surprise.
Who was it that said, "They won't remember what you did. What they remember is how you made them feel." By hooking and leading his audience's attention so artfully, Whit makes people feel that marvelous --- and unforgettable --- blend of childlike wonder, delight, plus the inescapable plight of being trapped on the horns of a dilemma. For every hour of practice we put in on the mechanics of any DL, it behooves us to to put in many more on creating the moment we offer our audience as a work of art. Failing that, the DL is of slight worth, no matter which method. My 2 cents. |
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