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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Help? Blatant Rip-off of my material on eBay. (33 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Scott
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On Jun 25, 2021, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
All of my Dvds from the New York Coin Magic Seminar are available in China as dirt cheap downloads. All of my Penguin Live and At the Table downloads have been ripped off by China and are selling for dirt cheap. My new book, RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC has been ripped off and is available as a cheap pdf on various crap sites. Bottom line is that we can't stop them as long as they are being fed by rotten bottom feeding "magicians" who care nothing about ethics or doing what's right.


Yep.
Scott Creasey - Mind Reader

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Ustaad
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On Jun 25, 2021, Michael Rubinstein wrote:

. . . . Bottom line is that we can't stop them as long as they are being fed by rotten bottom feeding "magicians" who care nothing about ethics or doing what's right.


On the subject, you will find numerous lengthy topics here on the Café, which were started and then died their own natural death without achieving much.

IMO, MOST (mark my word - 'MOST') people who purchase the cheap bootleg copies of our creations aren't the performing MAGICIANS in the true sense. They are the inquisitive hobbyist and a few buy them as collections. These people seldom make use of such material in the real world. And thus, in any case, they would have never purchased the legitimate copy. No doubt such bootleg sales is a cause of grave concern and worry for the creators, but IMO is not as much as we think & make of it. In today's world of cyber information technology we should learn to live with it. In magic, piracy is a very small field. There is billions of dollars at stake in the computer software, movie and music industry the world over. Who has the time & who cares about magic piracy! This is a FACT whether one likes it or not!

Just my thoughts please.

Smile
MAGIC is a SECRET, without the SECRET there is no MAGIC.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke.
Gaz Lawrence
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I agree with Narendra that next to zero of the people who get the pirated copies would have bought the originals anyway.
That doesn’t make it right and I would only want the original hardback copies and I love buying them, I have all Mark Chandaue’s and they are worth every single penny to me Gaz 😊
Ps I also know loads of magicians who buy an effect and readily show their magician friends the effect and the secret. I also borrow books from the magic circle library is that technically illegal? I don’t think so to be honest and most people whinging would of done it themselves in one form another at some stage.
There are well known magicians on here teaching other people’s effects free on YouTube too!
Andy W
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I agreed with Gaz. The people who buy pirated ones will probably never buy the original. They are in the pricing game since they just want to feed the curiosity and brag to friends that they know how it's done. Doesn't make it right but nothing much we can do to stop them. Think about how bad the music and movie industry was. It's part of a growing industry.

Eventually, something like Spotify and Netflix will come along and change up the game and the piracy will start to fade since it is not profitable to pirate something people doesn't need. Piracy is in the market for profit too (except the stupid people that upload to youtube for the small amount of view and likes)

Creators shouldn't worry too much as they are not your customer, to begin with. Just focus on making a good product and you can still make big bucks out of it.
The Unmasked Magician
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Big bucks? Are you speaking from experience?
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
Michael Rubinstein
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Sorry I disagree. Just because people don't use or do the material, whether or not they would buy from the creator if the pirated issue didn't exist. doesn't make it right to allow them to purchase or to be able to sell these knockoffs. If only the laws were better, we wouldn't need this conversation. And as somone who loses money every time a pirated sale is made, I am indeed upset that this crap exists.
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC SPECIAL:
I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COPIES AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED, AND COME WITH A SPECIAL FREE GIFT! If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
Gaz Lawrence
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Michael that’s exactly what I said above

“ I agree with Narendra that next to zero of the people who get the pirated copies would have bought the originals anyway.
That doesn’t make it right ”

It doesn’t make it right, but out of interest do you think it’s right to lend another magician a magic book to read rather than them buy it? Or borrow a book from the magic circles extensive library? Or lend someone your Queen CD collection or do you think every individual has to buy every single thing in life?
My Dad lent me his power wash last weekend is that wrong too? Or should I have asked or paid a fee to Karcher first?
The main point is that anyone who really wants something to use on a regular basis will buy the real McCoy imho Gaz 😊
Michael Rubinstein
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Gaz, I don't disagree with you. But there is a line between helping out a friend and paying into an illegal racket.
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC SPECIAL:
I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COPIES AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED, AND COME WITH A SPECIAL FREE GIFT! If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
Greg Arce
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I've heard that argument before. Here's the difference: When you borrow a book, CD collection or lawn tool, you eventually give it back and don't have a clone copy of it for eternity. It would be as if in the future we could borrow, let's say, someone's car and have a machine that makes an exact duplicate of it so now we have a car, too. You think car manufacturers would like the fact that for every car they sell they can't sell another ten or more because people are making duplicates of it without paying them?

If when you gave or sold someone a pdf that you bought and it also magically vanished from your computer so there was still only one copy out there then I could see it being okay. But people make multiple copies and the original creator gets nothing from it.

Let's do a personal example: You take a photo of some historical event. You give a copy of it to a friend. It turns out that friend got hold of a company that loved the photo and paid him $1000 for the photo. Would you be okay that you didn't get a piece of that action since you were the creator of the original photo?

Just asking.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Gaz Lawrence
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I don’t agree with pirating one bit but your argument doesn’t make sense.
If a fellow magician buys a magic effect and shows you exactly how to do the effect and it then means you don’t need to buy it is that ok?
As we jam magic all the time at the magic circle and share secrets with other members so that often means you don’t need to buy the effect.
Ironically most of the effects aren’t original to the so called new creator anyway and nor are half the ideas an effects in most of the books either.
I spend thousands on magic and would want the physical book so I think it’s wrong but many people who whinge are doing the same thing themselves in other ways like I mention.
I haven’t even got a computer so I have trouble sometimes downloading tutorials for effects that I rightly have paid for so I think it effects very few.
Most of the people are tight who do this sort of thing so they would never in a million years buy the real thing so no sale has been lost.
A lot of the magicians I see have the same suit and dog eared cards for years. Telling them to get a card signed to strengthen the effect is almost like you have just sworn at them.
The problem is a lot of people like highlighting something that isn’t causing much difference in sales or income.
This highlighting makes the problem far worse as most people didn’t know it even existed and wouldn’t dream of doing it imo Gaz 😊
Gaz Lawrence
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As far as the photo analogy goes none of my friends would do that as they wouldn’t have been my friends in the first place.
Secondly I have a lot of money so it would have zero effect on me.
It’s the principle though so thirdly and finally anyone who did that to me would know they would be in for a hiding when I got hold of them, so I doubt they would it’s as simple as that Gaz 😊
LoganPorterMagic
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I think our law is pretty good in terms of setting it. But problem is enforcing it. Unless the whole world works off one single centralize IP network. I doubt nothing much can be done.

we have cheating, piracy, drunk driving and whatever bad things you can do because the reality is nothing is “wrong” if you don’t get caught.


Quote:
On Jun 26, 2021, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
Sorry I disagree. Just because people don't use or do the material, whether or not they would buy from the creator if the pirated issue didn't exist. doesn't make it right to allow them to purchase or to be able to sell these knockoffs. If only the laws were better, we wouldn't need this conversation. And as somone who loses money every time a pirated sale is made, I am indeed upset that this crap exists.
Bill08
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Quote:
On Jun 25, 2021, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
All of my Dvds from the New York Coin Magic Seminar are available in China as dirt cheap downloads. All of my Penguin Live and At the Table downloads have been ripped off by China and are selling for dirt cheap. My new book, RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC has been ripped off and is available as a cheap pdf on various crap sites. Bottom line is that we can't stop them as long as they are being fed by rotten bottom feeding "magicians" who care nothing about ethics or doing what's right.

To be fair, I think quite a few of the illegal magic download websites are located in the USA
The Unmasked Magician
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Really? I thought they would be traceable and sueable then...
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
EZrhythm
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Unfortunately it comes down to- If you don't want it copied or pirated, don't put it out there or keep it within your own trusted circle.
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
simplymagicweb
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Similarly, I have just released a new effect which uses a particular coin gimmick. I included a full performance in the trailer, as I wanted to be very fair and upfront.

Then, I hear from the supplier of the coins that many "big names in the magic world" have suddenly been asking for this particular gimmick.... He hadn't had ANY orders for this gimmick prior to my release. So basically they want to copy my routine, buy the coins from him, and save themselves some money....

And then people wonder why creators will edit their trailers!!!

Hey ho. So much for being fair and upfront right....
Magically,

Website - www.simplymagic.co.uk
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The Unmasked Magician
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Pfff... that is just mindblowing. Especially if you earn money with it... support the creator FFS.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This applies to mentalists as well.)
Michael Rubinstein
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EZrhythm,sorry, that logic doesn't hold water. If people didn't put out books and effects because of fear they would be ripped off, the whole art would stall. Its bad enough that people fail to credit. But to rip someone off? Thievery pure and simple. Don’t wear a nice watch when you go out, because if you get mugged it is your fault. No, the answer isn't to not put anything out, the answer is to stop the cheaters snd thieves.
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC SPECIAL:
I HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF COPIES AVAILABLE TO BE SIGNED, AND COME WITH A SPECIAL FREE GIFT! If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com
videoman
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With all the wonderful things the internet has made possible, there is certainly an equal number of terrible things.
It will probably lead to the end of human existence eventually and that is not hyperbole.
Gaz Lawrence
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Yes the piracy of books is theft it’s as simple as that. Affecting sales is another issue but then that shouldn’t be in the equation.
Gimmicks are different as a lot of coin gaffed routines use similar gaffs and if you are comfortable with a certain size currency etc then being able to buy the routine and use your existing coins that could be a future option for creators who want to sell the whole kit or just the routine for those who have their own
sets already.
Other wise there would be no market for dealers who sell coin shells and gaffs for routines you already know yet you may have lost the shell etc etc.
A prime example which is current is lethal tender, I love my Sterling version which is beautifully made with the exact coin I want. The Airship one which at the moment is going through some teething problems but will definately be perfected by Jake and Frederick doesn’t use the coins I want.
Nor does Envisage by Dave Loosley I have it but I prefer the Chinese coins so what does one do. If according to Jake only Sterling and they have ever had the legal tender production rights so to speak does that mean that the Alakazam one is a rip off?
I don’t think for one second it is so how far do you go with this.
If in Sean’s new effect I wanted the effect but had the coin gimmicks already I would contact him privately and pay him good money for the routine.
There is a right way of doing most things imo and most creators would see that but they wouldn’t necessarily want all and sundry to know it and market it that way.
This I fully understand Gaz 😊
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