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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
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On 2004-08-13 02:17, Pete Biro wrote: I had several discussions wth Tommy Wonder about the Upside Down Topit but Tommy designed his to vansh things and I wanted to use it for producing large loads at the end of my C&Bs routine. Thus Tommy modified the pendulum in one way (to bring things away and to the back) and I modified it to bring thing in front very close to the jacket's edge at the second button but never able to hang out. In a C&Bs routine, you have to lean down to the table and the normal UDT or pendulum would hang out. After the modifications it worked fine and instead of stealing only one ball from it, I would take two (in a black bag with a rubber band at the lower opening which origin has also been debated) and one from behind the bag initially containing the cups (an original Tommy Wonder's idea, I believe). I had tried to follow David Berglas's advice and sleeve one with a simple device to release it when tugging the sleeve when needed (it works fine), but, for me the pendulum turned out to be easier. Now if we speak of Danny Korem, it should be stated in all fairness that he created a lot of extremely intelligent body movement to bring the UDT at its proper place and has made a contribution to this rarely used moving hold out. Again I had only adapt some of Danny's creations to be able to cross the gaze (tamariz's way to steal from the UDT). So Herr Kappelmeister Bill Palmer, with due respect Danny Korem (who I do not know personally) did more than just play with the price. I'm not familiar however with John Cornelius works on the Pendulum and I'd be obliged if you could tell me the source. Quote:
On 2004-09-03 20:19, Leppy wrote: Back in 1974, I was a pupil to Fred Robinson who, as a close friend to Pat Page and Eric Mason (also a great artist and a great magician), gave me an ample opportunity to see the extent of what Pat could do with a topit. It is really outstanding and even the Fred Kaps drop didn't improve the deception, only extended slightly the possibilities. Jay Scott Berry's topit however is also the result of a real work on his part and should be really seen (in my opinion) as a true evolution. By the way one of the things that Michael Ammar brought to the topit was its link with the outer jacket pocket. This may seem benine to some but it has been a major step into the topit concept. Carl Cloutier and Bob Fitch who make an extensive of it and have offered DVDs about their handling didnet make it progress as much but they helped popularize it and came with ideas about its use. Pat Page, Maichael Ammar Bob Fitch and Carl Cloutier for sure can vanish a deck of card in theirs. Maybe the initial post should work on the handling more than on the prop. Quote:
On 2004-06-21 03:27, Paul wrote: If you read the little red booklet that Pat Page produced years ago, it seems to me that Pat is crediting Harold Comden for binging it intothe magic world but that it is Gus Davenport who really started popularizing it and as Pete Birro and yourself mentionned, taught it to Pat. The fact of the matter is that topits are attached (not only inside jackets but also...) to the names of Pat Page and Michael Ammar, it seems to me that they both deserve credit around it even if it is in a different way.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
John's work with the pendulum was in a set of lecture notes that he sold at some of his early lectures. John, Danny and I are very good friends, and I was really surprised that Danny would basically run off with the idea like that. But you are right. He did do a lot of work to make it a feasible idea.
I kind of felt that in the case of the UDT, it was one of those "I have a gimmick, now let's see everything you can do with it" things, instead of "here's a problem, let me find the best possible solution to it," which was the way Koran used it. Posted: Oct 9, 2008 1:04am I found the lecture notes, as well as another published source for John's Pendulum Principle. He put out a set of lecture notes, called "Magic" by John Cornelius. There is no publication date on the notes, but they are his first set. The book is full of tips and ideas, including the basic method for his version of the 21 Card Trick, which he calls "The 21 or So Card Trick." The Pendulum Principle gets a whole page in this set of notes. I think they came out about 1975 or 1976, possibly earlier than that, though. It was definitely before he won at FISM. (1979) This also appears in The Award-Winning Magic of John Cornelius which was published by L&L Publications. Posted: Oct 20, 2008 2:04pm I got a call from John Cornelius last night, and brought up the subject of the pendulum principle. John stumbled on this without reference to Al Koran. He did a lot of work with it, but only published a small amount of it. Danny had come through San Antonio on a lecture tour and was working with the vanish of a particular item, but he was trying to make it work while standing. So John went home, set up the pendulum, came back to where the lecture was, and showed the whole thing to Danny. Danny asked permission from John to use it in a book. Later, when the book came out, he did credit John with some of the inspiration for the device, and he gave John a copy of the book.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Matt Watts Regular user 189 Posts |
I have Carl cloutier expert topiting.But It goes over nothing to do with making,preparing,or installing a topit.If anyone could help me with this that would be great.Thank You.
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts |
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On 2008-10-27 19:58, Matt Watts wrote: Check out "The Topit Book" and/or "The Topit DVD," both by Michael Ammar. He even has a pattern you can purchase. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
If Jay Scott Berry comes to your town, take the jacket you want this installed in to the lecture. Pay him for a topit and leave the jacket with him. His lady will install the topit and send your jacket back to you.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
It's not that my confirmtion is badly needed but for whoever may be interested in it, I totaly share Bill's opinion that Jay Scott Berry is the most achieved topit available at this moment and tht, yes, it does make a difference.
I notice that modern work is directed to and will keep evolving to use the topit for production as much as for vanishes. I know of one of the best possible C&Bs routine using it as such.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Only if you take time to learn how to use it and to really make it work. It can be a beautiful addition to an act.
Or it can make you look like a fool. It's one of those things that when you really have mastered it, NOBODY has any idea that you are using anything like it. But until you reach that point, the topit looks exactly like what it is. Basically, don't try for distance with it, if you know what I mean.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Having followed the work of Patrick Page, Fred Kaps, Michael Ammar, Bob Fitch, Jay Scott Berry... on this, I have been using for years the Pumpkin Seed vanish principle in combination with the Topit (rather than the sleeve) for a complete vanish. I think that the muscle pass offers new opportunities for using the Topit without the right hand flirting with the left jacket side.
I didn't try using Kainoa Harbottle fingertip muscle pass as yet but maybe someone did?
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's an excellent concept!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Fred Lowe had an interesting set up with a topit using a stiff wire and gravity instead of pinning it across.
In the '60s I made a topit with an openable bottom so you could retrieve items from below the coat edge. It used a fold and a magnet. Never did tip it.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's another excellent concept.
One thing that I disagree with that shows up in most of the Topit books and DVD's is the idea of pinning the topit into your jacket. If you are just learning how to use it, this is fine. But if you start using it regularly, you should install a topit into each jacket that you use in performance. It should be like any other part of your costume. Some will say that they don't perform professionally, so they don't want to do this. Nonsense! If you work with it correctly, it won't get in your way, and you will be prepared all the time. You don't have to be a working pro to perform professional level magic.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
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On 2010-09-08 05:58, Bill Palmer wrote: Worth writing down and remembering, Bill, much thanks... Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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magicofrowhan New user 11 Posts |
I know every one as there preferences to the different styles of topit but I swear by Michael Ammar's version
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Rennie Inner circle I think I have about 1826 Posts |
I have Michael Ammar's Topit Book on Ebay right now...$29.95 with no reserve.
Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
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Proxy Veteran user 336 Posts |
Quote:
Jay Scott Berry's topit however is also the result of a real work on his part and should be really seen (in my opinion) as a true evolution. By the way one of the things that Michael Ammar brought to the topit was its link with the outer jacket pocket... Does the JSB topit allow for outer pocket retrieval? |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
If you want it to, you can do that. His revolution has to do more with another facet of the topit completely.
Quote:
On 2010-09-21 02:14, magicofrowhan wrote: Have you actually seen the JSB topit? If you haven't, maybe you should suspend your judgment.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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tpearman New user Los Angeles 53 Posts |
So much great information on the topit and it's history. I never knew about the poachers bag and thieves pocket but I guess it would be perfect for those applications as well!
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Sylvester the Jester has also developed a concept for performing some Topit effects with just a shirt and using suspenders (no jacket). Apparently this idea has been taken up by a French magician but I haven't seen him at work.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
When I worked as Jim Gerrish's assistant (many, many years ago) I wore what we facetiously called a "Back-it." It was worn on my back and Jim would dump in gimmicks he was finished with as I came near him and I would walk off and empty them out of the bag. This was BV (Before Velcro) which would make the whole concept of putting it on and taking it off a whole lot easier today, but both my assistant and performing days are over, so I leave it in your hands... or on your backs.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Sylvester's method is incredible. You should see him fooling around with it at Dean's Shoppe....KILLS WITH IT. Retrievals are awesome. He sells it... go for it if you can work without a jacket.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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