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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts 
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I would like to add a full-deck false Riffle Shuffle to my (limited) set of sleights.
Can people recommend one that is fairly EASY whilst reasonably convincing please? I don't really mind if it's in the hands, or on a table - just something that is achievable for a relative newbie. To put this in context, my philosophy is that I would rather do something basic very well, than do something more advanced badly. Also having a simple version under my belt, I will hopefully progress to a more advanced one anyway - but I like to start simple. I have been playing around with the ZARROW shuffle. Is this generally regarded a good place to start? Thanks |
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ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts
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For this sleight there is no easy solution that will look convincing. Whatever method you choose, while the basic movements you could probably learn in an hour or two, making it look convincing will take plenty of dedicated work.
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copperct New user Cincinnati, Ohio 93 Posts
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I have found that there are many tricks that I've initially thought require a full-deck false shuffle that end up only needing various partial controls to ensure certain stocks are carefully preserved. For example, if you had a trick where the deck was pre-arranged by color or suit, you REALLY don't need to do a full deck shuffle, you just need to figure out ways to shuffle a deck a quarter at a time. I try to read what is suggested in the trick description, but then go back and think about how I can apply my own repertoire of sleights that may be able to solve my problem.
Understandably, this line of thought doesn't necessarily hold up to necessary full-deck false shuffled situations like mem-deck stuff, but as a fellow relative "newbie", I find that I'm really not working on anything on that level. Just food for thought! |
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disgruntledpuffin Special user i have nothing to say about my 522 Posts
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Nothing worth having comes easy. Put some serious time into the Truffle Shuffle. In a few months time you'll have a move that you can use for life.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2021, copperct wrote: Thanks for your response Copperct. Actually I do use a mem-deck (based on Joyal "six hour" stack, with a few modifications of my own). I think it is misleading to assume learning a stack is the exclusive province of advanced magicians. I only have rudimentary sleights, but learning the stack has allowed me to do stuff that is mind-boggling to spectators. During lockdown I learnt quite a lot of stuff by playing around with online quizzes. EG the 50 US states, Canadian provinces, 54 (I think) countries in Africa, all the countries & capitals of Europe. Learning a sequence of 52 playing cards is not that hard if you want to do it. Took me a couple of months. AND it's totally invisible, AND I always have "it" with me. Anyway back to shuffles......... |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Did my post get removed for some reason?
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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If it has to be a riffle, the Zarrow is probably the most easily attainable of the bunch, although there are a lot of touches that you'll want to pursue in order to make it really fly.
(1) Don't go 1-card cover. It's weak. (2) Minimize the amount of pushing forward and/or tilting forward to conceal what's happening at the bottom. It's easy to overdo this. (3) If possible, make sure everybody you're performing for is looking downwards on the action. (4) Do not allow any tells of an apparent riffle/unweave/push-in sequence of actions. It should look like you riffle the packets together and then push in, as you would for a normal shuffle. (5) For the initial block cut, Allan Ackerman teaches something called "Slip Shod" that some believe makes the get-ready less obvious. I've got no dog in that fight, but if you're looking for further refinements, check it out. (6) Steve Reynolds has highly-regarded work on the shuffle. Again, no dog in that fight. I was able to see it live once and it looked great, but I haven't seen his published work so I can't speak to that. (7) Finally... Seriously, knock it off with the 1-card cover. The only people who have an excuse to do that are those who need it for some sort of displacement, and (frankly) even they should be trying to find better methods. It was the multiple-card cover that originally fooled Marlo, and you can do a lot worse than having at the ready mechanical methods that have fooled Marlo. For sources, I'd say a good place to start is the article in Genii 2008. Back issues appear to be sold out, but I believe with a subscription you can access the digital version.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2021, Tortuga wrote: I don't think I saw one from you. Can you post it again? |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Thanks guys!
Andrew - I have never heard of a version with multiple cards for cover. Where could I find info on that? Or have I misunderstood you? I am aware of basically two approaches - 1. starts with a slip cut of one card. The shuffle is only executed once to maintain full stack order. 2. starts without the slip cut. You need to hold a break & do the shuffle a second time + a final cut to end up in original order. In both cases there is just 1 card "cover" (the top card) during the push-together. Unless you mean the group of cards immediately beneath the top card - the top card(s) of the other block??? |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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I was basically curious as to what source you are getting your information from regarding the Zarrow Shuffle. I was urging you to pursue the work of Steve Reynolds, which I think is some of the best on the subject.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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I agree with Andrew that "doing a Zarrow under one card" is not the way to go. It is seldom if ever necessary. And never necessary if you are merely doing a full deck false shuffle. Personally, I "Zarrow" under two cards and can do it by feel. I try to never look at the cards when shuffling, or perhaps I might steal a glance, but I look up at the exact moment I do the squaring action, drawing (hopefully) the spectator's attention to me and not the cards.
Doing it under one card results in an unnatural "popping up" of the top card unless you are careful to prevent it by holding down with your left forefinger. You need not ever use the slip cut with the Zarrow Shuffle is you are only using it as a false shuffle. There may be some specific routines where it is necessary, but for a basic false shuffle, you simply do 2 Zarrow shuffles in a row. There are other specifics, but I am not wanting to tip too much in the public forum. Regarding the "Zarrow Action", both hands should move together and in a semi-circular fashion. At all costs you should avoid the "stuffing the turkey" action that is present in far too many "Zarrows". When you've seen it, you will understand how it takes away from the illusion. You will see references to fanning cover cards and recommendations on tilting the packets, but neither is necessary nor are they desirable in my opinion. Do you tilt the cards when doing a regular tabled riffle shuffle? Probably not because it is frowned upon in gambling. It makes it easier to peek at the cards as you are squaring them. As for fanning the top few cards, again, do you do that normally? Who would? Now if you allow a few cards to sloppily spread out, fine. But any intentional fanning of the top cards sticks out like a sore thumb in my opinion. It may provide cover for the "Zarrow Action", but at what cost? Just some thoughts.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Thanks Tortuga,
I've only just started exploring the options for false riffle shuffles. My sources at the moment are (1) free tutorials on YouTube (2) previous threads here on the Café. (3) suggestions from people like you! This is just to get an initial understanding of what the options are. Then I will typically follow up by purchasing materials that get recommended. EG I notice you & TheBurnabyKid have both recommended Steve Reynolds - who I have never heard of. I'm also intrigued by the fact that Truffle & Heinstein (?) get praised very highly (including by "puffin" above). Also the Grey shuffle??? These sound like more of a long term commitment. I'm wondering how difficult they are. To put this in context - in the last year I have developed a couple of pretty reasonable DL's, Culling, Hunter/Garrett false OH shuffle, Optical Shuffle, Riffle Force, Slip Cut Force, Oullett Touch Force & a few false counts, false cuts etc. But I can't do anything like a side steal, pass etc. Also, a few weeks ago I could barely do a genuine riffle shuffle. Now I am getting quite comfortable with ITH & on the table. So I am by no means an expert with a deck of cards, but not a total Klutz either. |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 1990 Posts
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I would vote for the Heinstein shuffle for an 'in the hands' false riffle shuffle. The At the table lecture is well reviewed where Karl "actually went through and discussed in detail the merits of his shuffle over others on the market, but also the merits of other shuffles over his."
Also, the "and" character, called an ampersand, (which is shift 7 on the keyboard) will break the quoting function on the board making it impossible to see anything in your posts after the first instance of an ampersand. You might want to consider another shorthand character if you care to avoid quoting issues. *Note I fixed them so your original quote shows below. Quote: On Jul 15, 2021, Nikodemus wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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copperct New user Cincinnati, Ohio 93 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2021, Nikodemus wrote: Definitely. I will eventually get into mem-deck work, but to be honest, I've been learning so many tricks that can be done FASDIU that I really haven't had the time to go down the road of learning a stack. I'm sure one day I will end up getting Patrick Redford's book or something, but for now I can't keep up with the techniques in the books I own, not to mention all the ones I keep buying! I just know in some beginner's books like Scarne on Card Tricks, there are all kinds of stacks and I originally thought that I needed to do a full deck stack. Now, able to incorporate more slights and procedures, I have options. Options are very good. |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2021, Nikodemus wrote: It's in the Zarrow article from the 2008 Genii.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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The Steve Reynolds video (which I haven't seen) gets great reviews. Doesn't get any better than Steve Forte.
When possible, I always try to support the creators directly. Here's Steve's website: https://www.stevereynoldsmagic.com/collections/all Steve has the "Z" video on sale right now!
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Thanks for all the great suggestions.
I have just bought the Hein lecture - a bargain at £6.50. Thanks Kaliix! I have come up with a "quick and dirty" version of the Zarrow shuffle. This will probably sound like sacrilege to all the experts; but may be of interest to others at my level? Basically I am not even trying to keep the deck horizontal on the table. After the riffle, I am tilting the deck onto its side as I do the false push-together. This doesn't look how a pro handles cards, but does look like a plausible way for an amateur (like me) to scrunch the packets together. In fact I sometimes do that if doing a genuine riffle shuffle. The angles are covered brilliantly. It looks much more "honest" than fiddling around awkwardly in a suspicious way. And it's all over in a moment anyway. You can hold the top cover card ing place with both index fingers. And shove your thumb in the gap at the back to sort out any cards that get stuck. |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1172 Posts
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Daniel Madison's SHADE shuffle looks good - he makes it look very easy!
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jkr Regular user Mn 147 Posts
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Get Steve Reynolds video, you won’t regret it! The video is well produced, detailed and has great angles. He covers all the tells and gives excellent solutions to those tells.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2021, Tortuga wrote: Co-sign this. Steve has THE work on the Zarrow — and I highly recommend ordering directly from him. He’s a one-man operation, super nice, and always willing to answer questions or offer advice. |
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Posted: Jul 14, 2021 11:22 pm 
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