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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » A Question about Fred Robinson's bottom deal (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Ben Bob
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Hello everyone.Nowadays I found that the grip which the chinese gamblers use is the same as the Fred's when doing the bottom.So I want to know the history of this method.Though the Western playing cards is influenced by China,but I found that this method to do bottom only fits the mordern playing cards,and the mordern playing cards passed into China in the late 19th centery.so there were two possibilities: frist is some chinese guy taught Fred (i don't know if this method is Fred's original,that's also what I want to ask) ;second is Fred taught someone and then learned by Chinese gamblers.the history is interesting,but there are many questions.
Is Fred original of this method?When Fred public this idea?Or if he learn from some one else? In the early 20th centery,China was very poor,so it was a little bit possible for a Chinese to teach the method to some foreigners.Also it very strange that Chinese learned from Fred in private.
splice
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I'm not sure how you come to these conclusions. The same move can be discovered independently by multiple people. When you start from the same grip and are trying to accomplish the same result, it's obvious that some people will come up with the same solutions without having any contact with each other. Taking the bottom card and dealing it from a square grip doesn't have a million solutions. The square grip is a common layman grip. There's no reason to think a whole country's worth of gamblers couldn't come up with it and had to learn it from Fred or vice-versa and I think it's really weird you'd conclude that.
Skewed
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Quote:
On Sep 17, 2021, Ben Bob wrote:
Hello everyone.Nowadays I found that the grip which the chinese gamblers use is the same as the Fred's when doing the bottom.So I want to know the history of this method.Though the Western playing cards is influenced by China,but I found that this method to do bottom only fits the mordern playing cards,and the mordern playing cards passed into China in the late 19th centery.so there were two possibilities: frist is some chinese guy taught Fred (i don't know if this method is Fred's original,that's also what I want to ask) ;second is Fred taught someone and then learned by Chinese gamblers.the history is interesting,but there are many questions.
Is Fred original of this method?When Fred public this idea?Or if he learn from some one else? In the early 20th centery,China was very poor,so it was a little bit possible for a Chinese to teach the method to some foreigners.Also it very strange that Chinese learned from Fred in private.



There are only so many ways that you can hold a deck of cards in your hand. As splice has mentioned, it is very likely that the grip was simply stumbled upon in practice. Later perhaps when the grip was popularized as the 'Fred Robinson bottom deal', people that had already been dealing in that manner just assumed that what they had been doing was the 'Fred Robinson grip', and even those that picked up the grip to only later realize it had been published by Fred.

I may be wrong, but I doubt there is any rich history or conspiracy between the grip in question and Chinese gamblers - e.g., 'some Chinese guy taught Fred'.

Grips aren't exclusive, and as I mentioned before, there are only so many ways that a person may hold a deck of cards - so the chances of a 'gambler' or anyone for that matter, naturally finding comfort in the grip is high.
popcalinda
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Fred Robinson's grip is just a natural, open grip. It is the way most unskilled people are holding the deck.
Almost everything originates from China, even cards and cheating. The best and most skilled real game cheaters are actually Asian hustlers.
Chinese gamblers are handling the deck from the pure natural grip, all fingers on one side. They are working with smaller cards, but I watched Chinese hustlers doing moves with poker-size decks too.
I know a few of them personally and they are really skilled. They can do seconds, bottoms, even greeks from the same grip, and all that sailing cards around the table. The second deal they use is push-off.
You won't see Chinese hustler doing strike seconds. They have private, special schools where you are learning in person from the Masters.
They are also very skilled with sleeving methods, which is a Chinese traditional skill practiced by many. Sleeving from the tabled deck or cards, sleeving during the cut or dealing, sleeving while checking the cards, using a sleeve for cold deck switch, using a sleeve to switch card or cards, mucking from a sleeve, and so on. They are also good with shirt methods and belly load/steal methods.
Some guys I know could not believe they are doing just sleeving, they thought some kind of hold out is helping them...what was not actually.
Strange that we do not have anything in print, video about sleeving from the gaming table, how to prepare a sleeve, how to shot the card, methods for switching (cards, decks, dices, chips, dominoes).
But, the techniques they are using are completely different from techniques used by Western technicians, just different cultures.
Funny, Asian hustlers are calling Western top card mechanics magicians...
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