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pegasus
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, 252life wrote:
Welp with all these trusted voices speaking up for this I can't resist.
Just ordered on MindFx


The input method they use for the first trick that they tell you in the instructions to perform on yourself, not very good. Kind of obvious what was happening there (the principle behind it), so the lesson is, don’t use that input method. It’s really dumb and transparent. The other two input methods are excellent. My preference is the second one taught. The third one has potential though.


I kinda agree with you on the first input method but I’m sure it’ll fly past specs.
dirtyfoucault
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OK, now we know more about it the potential here is massive. And with Christian Grace, Michael Murray etc contributing stuff the FB group is going to be a goldmine. I'd given up on apps after the hassle of using Rostami's stuff, but this is top-notch. Self-contained and brilliant. Great work, Lloyd and Co!
leipzisch
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On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?


The full performance trailer they had released yesterday. That is actually pretty accurate. That horoscope effect is excellent. The way it’s designed and put together marries effect with method invisibly. There’s a peekless peek function as well that I will be using for that which adds another layer to it (the peek method in the full performance trailer however is arguably the the cleaner approach though).
Magic Mark
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Peekless Peek is brilliant!

As for the high/low input method, don’t sell it short. When swiping a little above or a little below center, particularly if you angle the phone a bit toward yourself as you do it, looks pretty much identical to untrained eyes.

I wish they hadn’t decided to open the Facebook group to people that haven’t purchased the app. Too many repetitive “how do I buy this” posts to wade through each hour. The answers are in the group, if people would just READ before posting.. I guess it will calm down with time.

Mark
PatrickGregoire
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:

The input method they use for the first trick that they tell you in the instructions to perform on yourself, not very good. Kind of obvious what was happening there (the principle behind it), so the lesson is, don’t use that input method. It’s really dumb and transparent.


I personally think the first input method is fine, you're just swiping through photos... Of course it's transparent when Lloyd asks YOU to swipe using the input method lol

It would also be transparent if you just straight up showed them photos and asked them if their card is there or not and just immediately swipe to the next picture. But with a presentation, there's even a slight time delay between swipes and nobody's gonna notice anything.
leipzisch
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?


The full performance trailer they had released yesterday. That is actually pretty accurate. That horoscope effect is excellent. The way it’s designed and put together marries effect with method invisibly. There’s a peekless peek function as well that I will be using for that which adds another layer to it (the peek method in the full performance trailer however is arguably the the cleaner approach though).


The way the horoscope routine was presented was exactly NOT what I'm looking for. Thoughtful folk may be amazed initially. But then they will ask: why did he use his phone? And why did he keep asking me to look at different horoscopes on his phone until I couldn't see mine anymore? The only theory they are left with is 'it's something about the phone'.

We need to close that door. Firmly.
Roberto W
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That’s why like along, there has to be reason and justification. If there is good enough reason, logic and justification then nothing will arouse suspicion. Yes at 1st I think it’s the shock value of the reveal either the final reveal photo or by you verbally saying the reveal, but it’s when they back track and think about it will be key - esp when talking about it to other people about what they did.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?


The full performance trailer they had released yesterday. That is actually pretty accurate. That horoscope effect is excellent. The way it’s designed and put together marries effect with method invisibly. There’s a peekless peek function as well that I will be using for that which adds another layer to it (the peek method in the full performance trailer however is arguably the the cleaner approach though).


The way the horoscope routine was presented was exactly NOT what I'm looking for. Thoughtful folk may be amazed initially. But then they will ask: why did he use his phone? And why did he keep asking me to look at different horoscopes on his phone until I couldn't see mine anymore? The only theory they are left with is 'it's something about the phone'.

We need to close that door. Firmly.


The door in my opinion is closed. You don't ask for the phone back when you do the reveal. There is effectively nothing to back track. They used your phone because they are going through your photo album. You're not asking them to go to a weird site, you're not handling their phone, etc. It's super clean and a non-issue. Also, you apparently didn't pay attention to the demo. It's not that they couldn't see their's anymore, it's because that's all the ones you have stored in your photo album. The thing is justified.

Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, Magic Mark wrote:
Peekless Peek is brilliant!

As for the high/low input method, don’t sell it short. When swiping a little above or a little below center, particularly if you angle the phone a bit toward yourself as you do it, looks pretty much identical to untrained eyes.

I wish they hadn’t decided to open the Facebook group to people that haven’t purchased the app. Too many repetitive “how do I buy this” posts to wade through each hour. The answers are in the group, if people would just READ before posting.. I guess it will calm down with time.

Mark


I have not gotten that far into the app yet where have learned what things I can do when I'm inputing things myself in a effect, so perhaps there's good use there. It was very late last night and I eventually fell asleep, LoL.
MagicJosh2212
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Hey everyone,

I'm Joshua Riley, the developer of Cognito, it's been an insane week seeing all of the posts that have been going in the Facebook group and also people messaging me privately about ideas for me to integrate into this app, we've not stopped innovating with this app and I've been adding new features and fixing bugs in all hours of the day. I cannot wait to see what else people come up with now as you can easily share your custom routines between other users, Michael Murray for one has been incredible by giving all users an hour and a half of FREE golden material for routining and justifying use of the phone, it's available now inside the Facebook group.

So I just want to personally say thank you to everyone that has purchased this app and has been sharing their love for the app in the group or via private message. All three of us (Lloyd, Owen & Me) really appreciate all of the feedback we've been getting, we're only just getting started with this app, it's only ever going to grow Smile

Joshua Riley
Magic Mark
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I'm about halfway into Michael Murray's video... FANTASTIC ideas.

The Facebook group is exploding with ideas, downloadable routines and helpful tips. Outstanding!

Mark
Kurtis Chin
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, Magic Mark wrote:
Peekless Peek is brilliant!

As for the high/low input method, don’t sell it short. When swiping a little above or a little below center, particularly if you angle the phone a bit toward yourself as you do it, looks pretty much identical to untrained eyes.

I wish they hadn’t decided to open the Facebook group to people that haven’t purchased the app. Too many repetitive “how do I buy this” posts to wade through each hour. The answers are in the group, if people would just READ before posting.. I guess it will calm down with time.
Mark


I agree with you Mark on the FB issue. I was surprised to see comments from unvetted, non purchasers. Most FB groups or private forums pertaining to a particular trick is privy to purchasers only.
leipzisch
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[quote]On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?


The full performance trailer they had released yesterday. That is actually pretty accurate. That horoscope effect is excellent. The way it’s designed and put together marries effect with method invisibly. There’s a peekless peek function as well that I will be using for that which adds another layer to it (the peek method in the full performance trailer however is arguably the the cleaner approach though).


The way the horoscope routine was presented was exactly NOT what I'm looking for. Thoughtful folk may be amazed initially. But then they will ask: why did he use his phone? And why did he keep asking me to look at different horoscopes on his phone until I couldn't see mine anymore? The only theory they are left with is 'it's something about the phone'.

We need to close that door. Firmly.


The door in my opinion is closed. You don't ask for the phone back when you do the reveal. There is effectively nothing to back track. They used your phone because they are going through your photo album. You're not asking them to go to a weird site, you're not handling their phone, etc. It's super clean and a non-issue. Also, you apparently didn't pay attention to the demo. It's not that they couldn't see their's anymore, it's because that's all the ones you have stored in your photo album. The thing is justified.


Er nope, it's not justified. We need to recognise most people are not stupid. A good proportion of people will ask 'why didn't he just tell me my horoscope?' and/ or 'why did he use pictures on his phone to read my mind?'

The deceptiveness of the method is only part of the equation when creating a mind blowing magic routine (one that keeps people wondering after the initial shock). The rest of the equation includes a compelling premise and a presentation that justifies the use of the props seamlessly. I did not see evidence of that on the promo. Not at all.
leipzisch
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... which is not to say that there aren't routines using Cognito which do justify the use of a phone and a process.

I'd love to see one!
Lonnie_Lyerla
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On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
... which is not to say that there aren't routines using Cognito which do justify the use of a phone and a process.

I'd love to see one!



If you’ve made your own custom routines with images that would only be on your phone and not someone else’s or on the “world wide web” ( like pictures that have yourself in them) that would justify why I’m using my phone instead of theirs. As for patter, you could use a free will plot or an observation plot to match your images in your camera roll.
cardistry master
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I think leipzisch is talking about justifying the process or phone in general. Not specifically the magicians.
Lonnie_Lyerla
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Let’s say that’s the case. We live in a technological era anyways. I’m old enough to remember being told that we won’t always have a calculator on us by my math teacher. And would you believe it, every smart phone comes with one pre-installed today. I feel if we are looking for a justification for something that’s natural ( like a smart phone ) then why not question every app looking for that justification like inject or TAP? Or anything that Marc Kerstein puts out. ( which btw happens to be the current GOAT of app magic )

Oh you’ve just predicted what card I was thinking of in your camera roll ( after I said it or wrote it down )
Oh you’ve just read my mind after having me go to a website that you’ve recommended. On my phone.

I think justification doesn’t just fall on the creator of the product. But also on the performer. As creativity is almost mandatory in our art of magic. If you can’t come up with a justification for something you’re interested in purchasing, then don’t purchase it until you figure that part out.

One persons idea of justifications may not meet another persons. For me it’s based on how I present my presentation which allows me to have what I believe to be legitimate justification for what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.
kissdadookie
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[quote]On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, kissdadookie wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 21, 2021, leipzisch wrote:
I'm waiting to be blown away by a full performance of Cognito.

Blown away by the possibility of blowing away my participants.

That will happen when I see a routine which doesn't simply justify the use of the phone or the process, but makes their use integral to the premise and presentation.

Then I can feel confident those who experience this will have nowhere to go.


... anyone care to share a performance that might meet this criteria?


The full performance trailer they had released yesterday. That is actually pretty accurate. That horoscope effect is excellent. The way it’s designed and put together marries effect with method invisibly. There’s a peekless peek function as well that I will be using for that which adds another layer to it (the peek method in the full performance trailer however is arguably the the cleaner approach though).


The way the horoscope routine was presented was exactly NOT what I'm looking for. Thoughtful folk may be amazed initially. But then they will ask: why did he use his phone? And why did he keep asking me to look at different horoscopes on his phone until I couldn't see mine anymore? The only theory they are left with is 'it's something about the phone'.

We need to close that door. Firmly.


The door in my opinion is closed. You don't ask for the phone back when you do the reveal. There is effectively nothing to back track. They used your phone because they are going through your photo album. You're not asking them to go to a weird site, you're not handling their phone, etc. It's super clean and a non-issue. Also, you apparently didn't pay attention to the demo. It's not that they couldn't see their's anymore, it's because that's all the ones you have stored in your photo album. The thing is justified.


Er nope, it's not justified. We need to recognise most people are not stupid. A good proportion of people will ask 'why didn't he just tell me my horoscope?' and/ or 'why did he use pictures on his phone to read my mind?'

The deceptiveness of the method is only part of the equation when creating a mind blowing magic routine (one that keeps people wondering after the initial shock). The rest of the equation includes a compelling premise and a presentation that justifies the use of the props seamlessly. I did not see evidence of that on the promo. Not at all.


We don’t know what was being said before he started the routine or other routines he may have had done prior but your argument is kind of like those that argue anagrams are no good because why wouldn’t you just call out the star sign immediately.

Here’s the thing though, mind reading is a process. They don’t know what your process is. Why do we have people write things down? Why do we ask them to picture the thought on a movie screen? The trailer is compelling. The effect is compelling. Clearly it gets very strong reactions because the method is so clean and strong. Though you have valid points I don’t believe they negate what is in my opinion a accurate performance in the trailer (the routine from start of work to the conclusion shows the product very accurately).
kissdadookie
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Leipzisch,

Let’s think about this from a spectator’s perspective based on the performance in the trailer.

1) Spectator thinks of a sign.
2) Spectator scrolled through every image.
3) Spectator stays silent throughout.
4) Phone is never handed back to the performer until after the reveal.

So, by what perceivable method from the spectator would they backtrack it to the phone? Even if the phone is suspected, what would they perceive the method to be? It’s truly impossible because even if the phone did it, what did the phone do? Read their eyes? Is the phone psychic? Where do you suppose they can backtrack this to? Yes, people are not dumb and thus they will try to backtrack, that’s where they will hit a dead wall.

Now, I bring this up not because I am disagreeing with you on the importance of framing and presentation, but the actual method and product here is actually pretty well thought out and quite frankly, pretty amazing, which the trailer pretty accurately portrays.
Joaquin
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Specator knows is an app. That is their first reaction.

I do not think electronics mix good with magic unless is hidden from the specator hands/ view

There are so many apps now days that do so many crazy things that hinders the magical aspect of a magic trick/phenomenon
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