|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Habu Veteran user Texas / Alabama 393 Posts |
In the situation you describe (referring to the original post) it is quite likely that the person demonstrating the effect was not himself a magician by trade but rather a salesmen. I am also sure that the owner of the store expects his/her salesmen to perform effects in order to increase sales.
Imagine your first day as a drive through order taker at McDonald's when you were 16, you goofed up orders left and right but you still had to do it. The store manager in this case did not give enough time to quality training of the employee and threw them to the wolves. My problem with the story you relayed was not with the salesperson but more with the manager or owner who allows his staff to perform when they are not prepared to do so. This is of course only one possible scenario for what happened to you (or rather him), but it still goes to illustrate that the store management is not either training their employees or is not ensuring that the employees present a professional experience for the customer. If I were you I would address this with the store owner/manager and express your concern that effects are being demonstrated before being mastered. You wouldn't even have to tell who the employee was. The manager would probably want to know this and be grateful that you pointed it out. Also: I wish there was a magic shop in my Mall!!! Quote:
On 2004-06-21 11:36, bigchuck wrote: We learn from criticism and never improve if our mistakes are not pointed out. Sometimes this comes from a self evaluation and other times it comes from concerned others who want us to become aware of our mistakes. And it sometimes comes from people with cruel intentions bent on embarrassing you. I would rather a magician critique my performance even unasked for then have the crowd of young women ridicule me. I would learn from both experiences, but one would be much more pleasant.
www.magicbyhabu.com
Real name: Rick Jackson Habu: Taken from SR-71 spy plane I worked on. It's name came from a poisonous snake on Okinawa. Hope my magic isn't poisonous! |
|||||||||
Habu Veteran user Texas / Alabama 393 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-03-31 11:10, The Conjuror wrote: I'm like you. If you practice to the point where you are comfortable with the effects in a mirror, or video tape, then go public you can find out the hard way that angles are not right or nerves make the performance less than smooth. I perform effects for my two daughters first, they are my assistants so they will know the effects soon anyway, and will be learning them. So they get the first view and if I pass that I move on to my Wife (a hard audience), then I do a little show for either my daughters friends or for some of the neighborhood kids as a freebie ... they think it's cool that the man on the corner is a magician. Then I know it's ready and I've shaken off the jitters of performing the effect live before a paying client sees it. And in response to the person who wrote that "practice practice practice" is sometimes not a good thing. That is a good point. At some point in your rehearsal you do need to evaluate what is happening and if there needs to be a change. I was doing sponge ball work based on a DVD I recently purchased. I then bought a ball manipulation DVD and in it the performer discussed standing at a 45 degree angle and how to hold your elbow up, how to move your body so arm movements were not so obvious etc. From this I rethought what I was doing with the sponge balls, and although it was not the same thing, it did make me change the way I addressed the audience (mirror and video camera) and it made a world of difference. Thankfully I learned this before putting many more hours doing the same thing and expecting a different result!
www.magicbyhabu.com
Real name: Rick Jackson Habu: Taken from SR-71 spy plane I worked on. It's name came from a poisonous snake on Okinawa. Hope my magic isn't poisonous! |
|||||||||
seadog93 Inner circle 3200 Posts |
Guinea pigs are important. Mine have no hesitation about telling me when I've messed up, this is very disheartening, but when they like a trick I KNOW I've done it well.
I've got two magic shops in my area. One of them (Misdirections magic in SF) has got to be the best magic store in the world (maybe not literally, but I LOVE this store). The owner is incredibly knowledgable and skilled. There is another shop, that I will not name, in SF that is a chain store that does not seem to hire people because they are magicians. Apparently you get the job, then learn a few trick so that you can sell them. Now I'm not putting down these people, I've seen them do perfectly good tricks and some of them really are magicians, but the whole feeling of the shop is off, I don't like going there anymore and I thnk in some that setup might really turn people off to magic if they happen to walk in at the wrong time.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b |
|||||||||
MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
Habu, I only found one real problem with your advice about the salesman and the store owner. You assumed that they were two different people. Since erictan8888 indicated that this was a new store, it is very likely that the store owner and the salesman are one-and-the-same person.
Erictan8888, instead of thinking in confrontational terms, did you consider making some suggestions to improve or even show a different handling? He might have been open to input from someone more experienced. Remember to be constructive and friendly at all times. Both of you have something in common. Now all you have to do is build on that.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
|
|||||||||
Matt Malinas Inner circle Transylvania 1367 Posts |
Eric, seems like you had a problem there. the first thing to solving a problem is to recognize it;) don't feel bad for sometimes wanting to rush things. everyone has been there before.
it's great that the experience at that magic shop influenced you a lot. it seems like you are constantly improving and that is very important. the best of luck to you! -Matt
The masters make the rules, for the wise men and the fools
|
|||||||||
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Don't practice, rehearse. Always rehearse.
|
|||||||||
MattWayne Special user Manhattan, NY | Studio City, CA 624 Posts |
I think the best feedback magicians can give is negative feedback. An example even from my own work. I was at a card session the other night with a few select performers and they wanted to see my card pass. I do a Hermann Pass; it's the bulk of my cardwork today. These guys hammered me. "Flash"... couple seconds later- "Flash." All the while; I was oblivious to my poor handling at that moment. I was so out of practice with this move; but thought that I could do it like I used to. Not the case!
So anyway- critique and feedback is good. In the situation you were in; probably did the right thing in just walking out... best regards, T.
Matt Wayne
The Celebrity Magicianâ„¢ www.CelebrityMagician.com / youtube.com/celebritymagician / twitter.com/RealMattWayne / Facebook.com/CelebrityMagician Creator of, 'Got a Light?' and others. Spokesperson behind, TouchTricks |
|||||||||
Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts |
Interesting comment, Drew.
After thinking about for a while, I decided that what you meant was that you should always do a move as if there was an audience present. However, I think that I would not apply that to a trick. Usually, I need to practice the moves in sequence and the flow of the whole trick before I add patter. A lot of that is not done as if an audience were present. But I'd really like to hear you expand on what you said. ///ark |
|||||||||
The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Regarding the patter part of it, I have to say that I rarely find magicians' patter as I hear it to be the kind of thing I want to do myself. I have not yet performed anything and I find myself somewhat unwilling to sort of script a presentation down to the last comma.
There is a lot of patter out there that sounds exactly like a rehersed line. A lot of magicians themselves seem to think that patter can be a bit corny, so they joke with it but then often end up more as standup comedians with card decks. Which isn't always good either in my opinion if it sounds like they are funny with a script. Or at least it isn't what I would see myself do. I would feel stupid delivering rehersed lines. I am the kind of person who tends to be funny when I improvise. My brain tends to feed me instant jokes which is more than enough for joking conversation. So I think it will be as far as patter goes as well. That is to say, one improvises over building blocks. I imagine that this is what comedians who do improv do as well: One day you think of something funny while using a salt shaker. Then forget about it. Later, when someone mentions a salt shaker, your brain instantly pulls out your bit about salt shakers. So myself I haven't practiced any finished patter to go with tricks, only building blocks or ideas. As I get nervous, I would instantly leave the script anyway. Anyway, what I was going to say was that I do sort of daydream imaginary people around me when I do a trick alone in my room. A bit childish maybe. It's not a concious thing. It is something I catch myself doing. I just talk to imaginary friends I guess. And improvise. The question is, will I recycle the lines that really made the imaginary audience laugh, or will I just panic and mumble insecurely. Which is what I do if I know that I'm performing, reading a speach or whatever. Finally I think that patter should not be allowed to compete with the visual impressions of a trick. It should accent it. Like a movie scene should ideally work without sound as it is a visual medium. The rest is spice.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
|||||||||
DanielSkahen New user NY 64 Posts |
Such a true point, thanks for sharing the story. You always have to wait for your own approval, in front of the mirror or behind the camera.
- Dan Skahen
|
|||||||||
Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Agreed 100%
if guitarplayers, musicians and sportsmen have to practise , why on earth do some magciians think they don't need it:) |
|||||||||
The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Speaking of guitar players. I was just thinking of them the other day when trying a deck of really thin cards:
I think someone once told me that some guitar players use slightly thicker strings at home than they do for a performance. The lighter strings then make the fingers fly and everything feels easier on stage. Self confidence soars, and so on. Since I normally use very thick cards it occurrs to me that maybe the same approach could be applied to card magic. I have noticed for instance that Guy Hollingworth uses very very thin Stud cards even though his hands are gigantic and probably very strong. Of course I have no basis whatsoever for believing that he uses thicker cards for practice. But if he did it would perhaps give him an extra boost while performing. The concept should work at least. Just a thought.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
|||||||||
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-10 17:29, Mark Wilden wrote: Learning moves it is important to practice them, but as "moves" aren't important and you don't realy need to learn them in the first place, then no, you shouldn't need to "practice". There is a LOT of focus put on the silver bullet tricks these days, but the way to perfection for a magicion doesn't lie with them, it lies in audience engagement, which comes from everything you do, not just the trick, and certainly not from some inherent quality of a particular trick. When you put your performance together, you should think about what you want to say to your audience, what message you want to send. You should then find effects that support that message. Then you should script your performance, write it down, with conceptional blocking. Then take your script and blocking and rehearse them. Certainly if you have chosen to walk the path of the "flicking fingers" you will want to devote some extra time to those moves, but why did you chose that path in the first place? There are plenty of perfectly good effects that could easily be mastered in the rehearsal process, assuming that you devote enough time to that process in the first place. No, baring the type of magic that could almost be discribed as juggling, the amount of time one SHOULD be devoting to rehearsal is more than ample practice time. If it isn't, then maybe you aren't rehearsing enough. |
|||||||||
jocce Regular user 136 Posts |
Quote:
I think someone once told me that some guitar players use slightly thicker strings at home than they do for a performance. I can't really speak for classic guitar players but having played electric guitar for some 30 years I can tell you that I or any of my friends would never do that. You get a completely different feel as well as sound with thicker strings. I think it's more or less the same with cards. Practice with the size you plan to use more often. |
|||||||||
The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Hmm. Oh well, that's one theory out the window then. Have played guitar myself since the dawn of time but I'm not very good so I have never performed anywhere and have no knowledge of that world.
Myself I had no problem going straight from my extra thick Bee cards to vintage Studs. They don't feel so different that it hinders anything, except for situations where you need to handle one card like in Tenkai. The hard part of course is going back once your hands are spoiled by the ease of soft cards. Another possible guitar parallel (I looked up the spelling of that word) is how thick cards or strings your hands can deal with over time without giving you pains. I have had a lot of hand pains that could perhaps be eased by going to thinner cards for a while. As an alternative to going cold turkey I mean. Because I know switching strings helps for guitarists who develope hand pains.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Heed the advice of the experts at this Café: practice before you perform (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |