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Wizuriel
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On Dec 16, 2021, Bob G wrote:
Wizuriel,

I got curious about the Guastaferro effect you mentioned, and I checked in his book One Degree to see if it was there, too, since I don't own his penguin lecture. The book didn't have the trick you mentioned, but it *did* have another very interesting-looking Triumph effect in which much of the work is done in the spectator's hands.


Later: I found the following DVD, but I'm not sure it's the lecture you referred to; none of the descriptions sound like Triumph. Any leads?


https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/live-l......lecture/


Bob


It's in the penguin live: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/3543 iirc it is an improvement he made on Ballet Stunner in One Degree but I don't have that book to confirm (and going off memory from the penguin live). It's more of a color change than a triumph effect, but he does do both in the trick.
Bob G
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Thanks, W. Can you clarify, please?: Are you saying that the version in the lecture is better than the one in One Degree?


Bob
gregg webb
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Nice to hear something about Cy Enfield and his book. Paul Harris's Tattoo You came to mind. Also David Williamson's variation on the same (from a lecture), and I'm going out on a limb - Dark Card by John Bannon...I may be remembering the plot wrongly. But I guess I like kickers. The kicker I hate is when, at the end, they turn the table over and painted there is a sign "You chose the 4 of Hearts!" I always go "That guy went too far!"

Cheers to Enfield's movie Zulu.
Bob G
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Gregg,

I think Tattoo You is John Bannon's?

Bob
gregg webb
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I have it on a Paul Harris video. The Dark Card I know is Bannon's. I can't remember if that one is a Triumph or different plot, at this point. Let me know if I'm wrong so I can call Bellview. While we're on the topic, I changed the trick deck version of Triumph, Cheek to Cheek, so that there was no selected card, but after the cards are shown all backs up, there are 4 Aces face up in the middle. These are then shown to have red backs, and I put the deck away and do Twisting the Aces with the Aces, and the gaffed deck is safely away. It violates that kicker idea, so again, I must like kickers.

I told David Roth about Cheek to Cheek. He hated it, because he thought the sleights way was better. Then a while later I saw him working at Fantasma, and he says "Look at this great trick Cheek to Cheek". That is David in a nutshell. But I never told him the version above. He would have hated it until I showed it to him again in two weeks.
Bob G
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Hi Gregg,


I just bought a download from Penguin with Bannon's Tattoo You -- but it's a jumping signature trick, not a triumph. So maybe Bannon unconsciously used the title because he'd seen a Paul Harris Triumph effect with that name??


I'm not experienced enough to speak intelligently about kickers (though that hasn't stopped me from speaking unintelligently about them Smile ). But judging from the posts on this thread, it's largely a matter of personal preference, along with the context of the trick.

BTW, thanks for your years-ago post about the first things that beginners to card sleight-of-hand should learn.


Bob
gregg webb
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I guess, but Bannon is great. I forgot what I wrote back then, but my opinions change like the wind. I had a session with David Williamson a while back and we really changed the Paul Harris version. I got rid of the selected card angle and it is just face-up face down deck turns all FACE UP, then the deck changes color!

In Harris's, he ended with the selection was the only one with the other color back, which I feel gave away the M.O., so by eliminating that, I feel it was cleaner and 1 gaff of a Red/Blue Double Face card was there, instead of the selection. Plus it reset. I forgot what David did with his but equally different. Funny, we both liked the trick but changed it around.

Tell me what I wrote back when. Maybe I'll remember.
Bob G
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Hi Gregg,

Yes, hard not to like Bannon!


Here's the post of yours that I was referring to:

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=41 .

It's a sticky! -- in the New to Magic forum. I've found it immensely useful, even though I haven't actually followed all of your advice! It formed a constant backdrop against which I could test my progress. After about five or six years studying magic, I see that I've learned many of the things you suggested, over half, but of course, like all of us, I've had to carve my own way despite all the good advice out there. Since I particularly like packet tricks, I learned the Elmsley Count, as you suggested, but I've also learned four or five other small packet sleights.

One thing that you said particularly intrigued me: "I think the best compromise between difficulty and fairness [in forcing cards] is the Hofzinser cull force." On the one hand, your statement made me want to learn the spread cull (still haven't done that yet). On the other hand, it struck me, from what I'd read on the Café, that this sleight is harder than the others you mention, and so maybe wasn't appropriate for beginners.

These things are so subjective, but my own experience has been that it's very hard to do the full-deck double turnover consistently, even after years of practice. Thankfully, the small packet turnover came in fairly quickly and now use it regularly. Go figure.

Nice figure of speech, by the way: "My opinion change like the wind." I'd be curious to hear what you'd say now if you were to suggest the essential card sleights that a beginner should learn -- only if doing so would interest you, of course.

Bob
Bob G
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Sorry -- Just realized I was talking to the wrong person! I got taken in by the superficial similarity between your name and Geoff Weber's. Smile I'll go now.
gregg webb
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So, I'm not "the guy". Oh, no. Hindu Shuffle. Double Lift. Elmsley Count. Top Palm. (Just in case) Oh, switched from Double Undercut to Triple Undercut. I'll go now.
Bob G
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Douglas.M
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There are some Triumph + Stranger card routines which are very effective: John Guastaferro's Party Animal (Brainstorm DVDs), Airmail Card by Jim Swain (Miracles with cards), and Deja-vu by Carl Andrews (Making a living performing Close Up Magic DVD). The triumphs are stepping stones to the much more magical reveal at the end, completely justified by the presentations.
I like Guastaferro's handling, but use a premise adapted from Harkey's Reminiscence (Card to wallet: the book), and a "distressed" Mickey Mouse stranger card.

DouglasM
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