We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Hilfords' dance of Shiva pros and cons (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

square
View Profile
New user
1 Post

Profile of square
I was interested in others people's views of Docc Hilford's billet work call the "dance of Shiva". It sounds good in his ad copy, but I've heard that Docc go's a little over board when blowing his own horn.

Other people have said that Al Mann has something similar. I wonder if Docc's is an improvement on Al Mann's principle. Also it was mentioned that Cassidy had a improvement on Al Baker's billet work which may have some like thinking. I'm interested in any people's thoughts familiar with these methods.
magickdabid--uk
View Profile
Loyal user
245 Posts

Profile of magickdabid--uk
I'm a fan of Docc's work, but if I'm honest it can be a hit-or-miss affair. Some of his work is outstanding and some...

Well, Do yourself a favour. Get hold of Mr. Busch's work on billets. It take's some beating.

Dave.
reese
View Profile
Inner circle
of Hell
1265 Posts

Profile of reese
Quote:
On 2004-06-22 13:50, square wrote:
I was interested in others peoples views of docc Hilfords billet work call the "dance of shiva". It sounds good in his ad copy but I've heard that docc go's a little over board when blowing his own horn. other people have said that Al mann has something similar...I wonder if docc's is a improvment on al mann's principle.
What is the name of the Al Mann effect which is somewhat similar?
David Numen
View Profile
Inner circle
1984 Posts

Profile of David Numen
I think Dance of Shiva is worth having. It's really very clean appearing to the spectator. There is an issue with returning the card or billet, but it is an issue with several pretty easy solutions.

Busch's work has some gems also. Mind you he is every bit as OTT as Docc in blowing his own trumpet. A friend showed me one move from Peek Encores which is just incredible.

Get both if you can. I'm torn to choose between them, but I'd say get Encores if you can only get one.

Regards,

David.
Avocat
View Profile
Veteran user
366 Posts

Profile of Avocat
I also come down in favor of Busch's Peek Encores.

I've found, in practice, that Docc's Dance of Shiva technique has been largely superseded by Busch's work, especially in Peek Encores. Busch has handlings there that permit you to peek more surface area than Shiva does, and even allow the performer to return the billet (if you are so inclined, which I generally am not).

One Busch peek in particular covers EXACTLY the same area as Shiva's, without the "work" required by Shiva, so you save yourself a step (and, again, wind up with a return-able billet).

There's even a handling that permits the performer to obtain a Shiva-like peek without ever TOUCHING the billet, which you most definitely CANNOT do with Shiva.
Alexander Marsh
View Profile
Inner circle
England
1190 Posts

Profile of Alexander Marsh
I have both PP and PE by Busch, but I'm also interested in Docc's billet.

Mainly because from what I've worked out (so to speak) you can very easily read (peek) a sentence, which is something I'm very interested in doing with a billet.

True you can do it with some of Busch's billets, and I do indeed love many of Busch's peeks and billets but from what I understand, with Docc's billet there's no need for "feeling the energy coming from the paper" which is often Busch's reasoning behind 'fiddling' with the billet.

Am I right in thinking you can read a sentence with Docc's billet?

Thanks.

Alex.
David Numen
View Profile
Inner circle
1984 Posts

Profile of David Numen
You can read a sentence with the billet, but it's probably not any cleaner than Busch's Billet in terms of the moves required and the angles.

Regards,

David.
Photofnish
View Profile
Regular user
Issaquah, WA
140 Posts

Profile of Photofnish
Speaking of Busch, I've heard good things about both PP and PE, but I don't own either. Would you advise that I purchase PP first, or does it matter?

Thanks.
johne
View Profile
Special user
960 Posts

Profile of johne
I think Richard will give you a deal if you get both together, and autograph them. I got Peek Encores first, and really love the Billets. I wish now, I had got them together.

John E.
Jack
View Profile
Veteran user
370 Posts

Profile of Jack
I just purchased both. Maybe someday he can autograph them for me. Both books are full of everything you really need to know about billet work. 'Peek Performances' has a gorgeous center-tear and other cool ways of gaining billet information. 'Peek Encores' has 'Busch's Billet' in what I've heard rivals Docc's, and is similar in method except Richard's is returnable and undamaged, and yes, it is a lightning-fast method of obtaining the information. In the process of placing the card onto the top of a shot glass (then held flat with a quarter), I've already seen the writing, and the astute spectators are still watching me, hoping to catch me. Ha! Ha! Ha!
Not knocking Docc's though as I haven't seen it and I would like to know his method, as I am intrigued by it. The more you learn, the more diversified you become!
Magically, Jack
Sven Rygh
View Profile
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway.
1945 Posts

Profile of Sven Rygh
How many peeks & tears are there actually around?
Hundreds?

I fear that we also in this field are searching for the Holy Grail that can do wonders for us.
Sorry, but a such thing does not exist.

The central question is what wonders WE can do with the right tears, peeks & moves.

I use billets all the time, and my arsenal is (-and will be for years!!) The Perfected Center Tear, the new Acidus Novus and Busch's Billet.
These cover all my needs.

Sven

...and YES, Richard Busch's two books are some of the most important in my magic library.
7th_Son
View Profile
Elite user
Australia
437 Posts

Profile of 7th_Son
Is there a discount if you buy both peek performances and peek encores?
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
Sven Rygh
View Profile
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway.
1945 Posts

Profile of Sven Rygh
Not as I know of, and I have seen no dealers saying so in their adds.

The books are IMHO very underpriced as they already are.

Sven
Photofnish
View Profile
Regular user
Issaquah, WA
140 Posts

Profile of Photofnish
Sven: Where did you learn the "new Acidus Novus"?

Thanks.
Sven Rygh
View Profile
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway.
1945 Posts

Profile of Sven Rygh
Quote:
On 2004-06-25 14:06, Photofnish wrote:
Sven: Where did you learn the "new Acidus Novus"?

Thanks.


From Millard Longmans book
StrangeMagick
View Profile
Special user
620 Posts

Profile of StrangeMagick
Photofnish:
Sven said ...
>>From Millard Longmans book

Unfortunately, this book is out of print. I'm sort of glad it is, because this material is just too good to be ripped off by illegal copies.

Dave
fib
View Profile
Inner circle
1535 Posts

Profile of fib
Regarding "Dance of Shiva,"

If you get "Dance," one of the first things that may catch your eye is an illustration of a hand.

It's a drawing of the back of the mentalist's hand from the view of the audience. The fingers point straight out and are held very close together.
Hillford says we should put the billet at the edge of those fingers and get the peek.

Give me a break. It's so bloody artificial. It looks weird. I'm the idiot for spending 45 dollars on it.

fib
Photofnish
View Profile
Regular user
Issaquah, WA
140 Posts

Profile of Photofnish
Can anyone tell me where I can find Busch's Billet? Is it in both Peek Performances and Peek Encores, or only the latter?

Thanks!
Sven Rygh
View Profile
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway.
1945 Posts

Profile of Sven Rygh
You will find Busch's Billet in Peek Encores, as up to my knowledge, the only place.

Sven
Scott Xavier
View Profile
Inner circle
3672 Posts

Profile of Scott Xavier
Do or don't. I own this book. Docc's a nice man and his techniques are usually sound. I have only disappointed with Mephistos Journey, but others love it. The key to our business is to possess the most knowledge. He who does, and uses it in a constructive way, wins the game/prize!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Hilfords' dance of Shiva pros and cons (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL