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sniper1 Veteran user malta eu 343 Posts |
Ive had a kids party not so long ago where the kids , where so spoiled and arrogant , that I just coulnt control them , I mean they were running around trying to touch the props. ect ect { these kids are not accoustonmed to listen to authority figures}
is there a way in which I could minimise this , or prevent it from happening .
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
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Andy Wonder Special user Auckland, New Zealand 747 Posts |
There are lots of little things you can do, but prevention is always better than a cure.
Answer these questions & I will try to suggest ways you might have been able to avoid the problem. How old were the kids? How many kids were there? Same age or mixed age? Same gender? or mixed gender? What had they been doing before you arrived? What happened before the show started? Had any of them seen you before? What expectations of the show did they have? Were there adults present? What sort of venue where you in? What sort of attitude did the the booker or the parents have about your show before you arrived?
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
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gocall911 Loyal user Salem, VA 247 Posts |
I have had kids at 4H days camps where I was teaching lately and for some reason even though I have been doing magic over 10 years there were some kids that "knew" more then I did about it and would not shut up. I swear if my kids ever act like some of the ones I have performed for and taught lately, I would tan their hide.
I am really looking forword to hearing some of the advice given.
"Use your head." ~Dai Vernon~
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sniper1 Veteran user malta eu 343 Posts |
Ok here are the awnsers to your questions mr walker
1 mixed ages 6-10 2 around 20 3 mixed age 4 mixed gender 5 watching movies ,running around 6 nothing 7 only 1 seen my show , but others new some of the effects aswell { in fact I already changed some of the effects that I do and put in less known , not so commercial items } 8 I really cant say { but most of the kids there were came from very rich families , and are very spoilt so they don't apreaciate nothing } 9 yes 10 a private hall in a 5 star hotel 11 an in different attidude
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
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Andy Wonder Special user Auckland, New Zealand 747 Posts |
Okay Sniper, your answers have helped me visualize the situation a lot more. I must say it has been very unusual for me to be in a situation like that although I have experienced something similar recently. Usually the groups that go wild are same age/same sex groups. Age 6 for boys & age 8-9 for girls. They easily go wild when they are with their class mates.
In terms of preparation these are some of the things I do and they work for me. It all starts when the booker calls you for a quote. Usually they want 1 of 2 things. They either want a special magical time for their children or they just want something to occupy the children so they can do something else. The later are they type that are more likely to have problem parties. By charging higher fees you will get less of these types of clients. Just by charging a good fee you can gain a more respect from the adults. This attitude does rub off on the children. Why should the kids respect you if they know their parents don’t. If these problems occur often it could be a sign you are working at the cheap end of the market. Even wealthy clients hire cheaper entertainers. Also I might add if a particular event really sounds like it is going to be problems from the start you don’t have to accept the booking. In the booking confirmation letter I send to the booker I add this line. “Also if there are any children that have behavioral problems, a tendency to be particularly bad mannered or use obscenities please make sure they have parental supervision during the performance.’ This hopefully prepares the parents to watch over children they already know to be troublemakers. Also without spelling it out reminds the booker that I am an entertainer not a disciplinarian. When you have a mixed age group like this is should be easier to isolate & stop bad behavior because the older children usually don’t follow the younger ones & vice versa. Older kids usually want to challenge you. They will talk back, verbally interrupt or move about to walk about behind you etc. You need to get them onside right from the start, before the show begins. Treat them like one of your mates & find some common ground with them right at the start. I usually pick out the older child that looks most likely to be a trouble maker (or the more dominant child) & ask if he will help me carry some props from my car. This gives you the chance to be mates & get him on side right from the start. Sometimes I explain that some of the magic will be designed for the small kids but you understand he will be mature enough to understand this and allow the smaller children to enjoy things. Sometimes I might challenge him to figure out the method of the magic tricks. I explain he must keep his thoughts to himself & if he can tell me how the tricks work when he helps me pack up afterwards them I will have some prize for him. This stops dead the boasting ‘I know how that is done’ statements. I actually know of one magician that will approach children that look like troublemakers & offer to buy them ice creams after the show if they will stay quite & not interrupt. Bribery has its place. Also with a mixed age group I tend to pitch things more at the older children. This avoids alienating them. When they think the show is just for the little kids they become tempted to disrupt the performance for their own entertainment. I also like to entertain the adults as well. If the adults are enjoying the show they will step in when they see their own children disrupting things. Likewise kids tend to not misbehave when they know Mom or Dad are watching. If they think no adults are watching the temptation to misbehave is much greater. This also comes back to how I sell my show. I always try & sell it as a Family Show where I can. That way the adults expect to watch & enjoy the show themselves before I even arrive at the venue. If you have gone this far it is unusual to have 4-6 year olds run about etc. In your situation they were running about before the show started so once it began they really did not understand running around was no longer appropriate. If kids are running around when I arrive I try to set up the show in a different area. Hopefully they associate that new area as a sit down place & outside as the run around area. You are better off packed into a small room than in a spacious area. There is nowhere to run around in a small room. If you can’t do that you need to make the beginning of your show as abrupt and dramatic as possible. If you chat & goof around with the younger kids before the show starts they don’t really understand they have moved into showtime where the rules are now different. Before the show you almost want to be grumpy with the younger kids. Not the jolly uncle but the strict headmaster. Boss them around at the start & tell them where to sit. This establishes your authority right at the start. You can become easier going once the show gets underway, but you can’t go in reverse & suddenly become strict. If they do try & run about or grab your props once they show has begun don’t feel you have to accept it. Step your foot down immediately before other kids decide to follow & join in. I will tell the, it is my show it is my rules. If one particular child is just impossible don’t be afraid to request help from an adult. If I am in a school show & I get one kid like that I will tell them to go & sit next to their teacher. I’ve only done it once in 10 years so it is a rarity. Also if I have told a kid off like that I will make a point of smiling at him or winking or maybe using him as a helper later on. Not straight away but maybe 10 minutes later. This lets the child know all is forgiven. Toddlers that get in the way & grab props etc are another issue & have already been discusses extensively in other threads. Let me know if any of this has been help. I used to sometimes have shows that just went to custard but that does not happen to me anymore (touch wood). Stopping these problems is 95% about preventing them before they occur & 5% about reacting to them once they do.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
Wow you havn't left me anything to add andy, except:-
Buy a big stick and put a 6" nail through the end, paint it like a wand and when they miss-behave a tap on the head with the wand magically brings the trouble to a halt.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
I think you may have also entered myself and Emazdad's "twilight zone" also here Sniper! 5 star hotel, and you use the words "spoiled" and "arrogant". I've seen a quarter of a century of these sort believe me! See the thread on "rock solid customers" I made last week. (All that glitters is not gold!).
I've heard kids in my locality say things to people like: (to a refuse collector) "My dad says you must be stupid to empty dustbins" or (to an ice cream vendor - mobile in a van): "what sort of job is this?? selling ice cream!!" My wife put an arrogant grandparent in his place when he said to her: "I suppose nearly all your parties are Private School children". Malta, - lovely place but probably influenced by the British and their Class system slightly? PS You didn't wear a baseball cap back to front and smoke a cig at the party did you? (Only joking! Only joking!) |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Sniper1 -
This is another question I have to add to Andy's. Did you go over some basic rules / guidelines at the start of the show, so you made your audience expectations clear to the children (and parents watching)? Occassionally it makes little difference, but you still should do it at every show. These rules / guidelines are covered on many other threads. - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
Well Sniper,
Im speechless I cant say anything! Well done andy!apart from I would suggest using a big piece of rope from one side of the room to the other end, I think its phychology that makes them not cross the rope. If they still cross the rope use it to tie them all up! Matt |
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Andy Wonder Special user Auckland, New Zealand 747 Posts |
Matt if you give them enough rope they will hang themselves. Just kidding. I only use rope to show children where I want them to sit. I sometimes use rope if I want them to sit diagonally across the room. Often having children sit at a 45° angle boxing you in the corner is the most efficient use of space. Younger children especially can not comprehend sitting in any line that is not parallel with a wall so that is where the rope comes in. I find it is not a very good barrier because it wont stop they type of children that like to creep up. They just roll the rope forward, or maybe start playing with the rope. I always carry masking tape. I use low the tac type for wooden floors & high tac for carpets. Ideally you want to stick it down before the children enter the room if possible. If they see you put it down they are much more likely to want to pull it up. If they don’t see you put it down they never seem to think of pulling it up. I guess they just don’t visualize the floor without it. Also another subtlety is that I never refer to it as tape. Always call it a line. You don’t want to plant any ideas.
Again using lines & pre shows talks about rules are topics that have been flogged to death in other threads.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
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triadsong Regular user Long Island, NY 170 Posts |
Andy,
I'm not sure about New Zealand but by "low tack" you're referring to "Blue Painter's Tape" that's sold in Paint/Hardware stores in the US I never go to a show without it! I also set the rules up while doing my opening piece. I speak about "magic space" and have some "controlled" noise and silence to get them to understand when it's appropriate to yell and when its appropriate to clap, etc. The time that I have the most trouble with is getting some privacy during teh 5 Minutes I need between arriving and being ready to start! For that I recommend a German Shepherd, although I do like Emazdad's stick idea! (LOL) |
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sniper1 Veteran user malta eu 343 Posts |
What can I say , tnks for all the info on this branch of the art , { you can tie me up , make me drunk , put me in a pub and ill assure you every one will some out laughing and satisfied , but put 20 kids infront of me and I start to get the creeps hehe }
as for andy , I cant conjure up the words right now to express my thanks as for the tape or line idea I tought about it and I'm going to implement it in my future shows { some police homicide zone line should do it } ok back to seriusness , do you think its advisable to use a bang gun to get the childrens attention back ?
THE MOST CRAZY MAGICIAN ON THE MALTESE ISLANDS
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Andy Wonder Special user Auckland, New Zealand 747 Posts |
As for the bang gun, NO. I believe using any kind of gun or knife in a magic show is a bad idea, especially for children. If you are a cowboy style clown with a oversize colourful gun... maybe... If you look more like a regular guy with a more realistic gun.... no leave it out. Play it safe there. Many parents these days will not allow their children to play with toy guns. If you arrive at a party and find the kids alreday have toy guns, get them removed and put out of sight before the show starts. Otherwise you will get shot at during the show.
I actually don't use the tape very often, only for larger show in school halls etc. For birthday parties I usually use a mat. Mats are reusable, can not be moved by the children (while everyone is sitting on one) plus enable you to get all the children sitting closely together. Getting them sitting together can be very difficult especially in a large hall where they sometimes will sit as far apart as they can. Actually Ace brought up a very valid point about your appearance, even if in jest. Imagine an unshaven guy entertaining some 'horrible' kids while smoking a cigarette with his cap on backward brandishing a realistic looking bang gun, and he is called Sniper!!! Entertaining children is a lot different to entertaining in a bar.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
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triadsong Regular user Long Island, NY 170 Posts |
By all means, don't use a gun! I even stopped using Needle-thru-balloon a long time ago because I had some older kids joking about "needle-thru-little brother."
Our media is violent enough already and there are sections in the areas I perform where violence is a way of life. As magicians we provide an escape from the world in which we live. Part of that escape should include the message of hope that our world can be safer -- especially for our kids! |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Hopefully you learned something from the experience.
You might want to read a non magic magic book called The inner game of tennis. IMHO the topic also covers entertainment. Yesterday I had a wide range of kids. From newly recovered adult addicts to campers ages 8-18 that also happen to be living with autism and aspergers. The campers were sitting with counselors and volunteers on an almost 1 to 1 basis. Have I had shows from H_ _ _. Yes. Are they as frequent as they were in the "early years". No. Enjoy the journey. Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
Andy I don't think it is agood idea to let kids sit on me!
We were so poor my mum wrote welcome on my back and I had to sit outside my house for 3days! Matt (i feel like people are just waking all over me!) |
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naturalturn Regular user 154 Posts |
Great points everyone!
Not sure if you were using a small P.A. system, Sniper, but another point I would like to add is: If I know ahead of time that there might be 20-25 kids (especially in the 6-10 year old bracket), I would also pack a small karaoke-type P.A. system. Besides selecting strong age-appropriate routines that would hold their interest, this added measure of a P.A. system would also help you control the audience should any problems arise. naturalturn (Ray) http://www.raywongmagic.com When Magic Went WONG!
www.facebook.com/RayWongMagic
When Magic Went WONG! |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
I find peper spray and a quick kidney punch to work well...
...but this is Detroit |
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
Lol, whatever works for you.
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Smudge New user 82 Posts |
I did a routine in a holiday centre once and this kid was obnoxtious, so I said to him that I could tell him exactly what he had in his pockets by using mind reading. He said "Go on then" so I told him to go outside the room and I would call him back in when I had worked it out and told the audience. (you guessed it)he left the room and I left him out there for the rest of my act. everytime he popped his head around the door I said "I'm not quite ready hang on" the audience loved it and I got him back at the end and gave him a signed photo as a gift. he then saw the funny side.
I've done this dozens of times since and it works a treat. even the victims parents find it funny. try it. |
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