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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Miser's Dream Advice Sought (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

cloneman
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I'm looking for some Miser's Dream advice.

I'm working on a version of this classic effect in which the end result is I produce all of the coins I am going to use in my act - Ike dollars (I'll open with the effect).

Here's the question: in your opinions, which is better:

1) to produce one kind of coin - let's say GOLD dollars - throw them into the pail, only to reveal at the end that the gold coins I've caught have turned themselves into the SILVER Ike Dollars I use in the act.

-- OR --

2) to produce the SILVER Ike Dollars, throw them into pail and end with the illusion that all of the SILVER coins in the pail were the ones I plucked from the air, clothing, etc.

In other words, if I go with #1, does the fact that the coins plucked from the air are not the same ones that are in the bucket in the end diminish or augment the illusion?
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
Mike Wild
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It definitely changes the illusion. I have a feeling that catching a pail full of gold coins, that for some reason become silver Ike's after the catching is complete would detract from the overall illusion... as well as perhaps tipping your mit as to the method. A savvy spectator would start to wonder where the coins actually came from, and by catching one type, but having a bucket full of another, you might be giving them enough fuel to figure it out.

Just my 15-20 coins worth Smile

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Jonathan Townsend
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Read about accepting gold from the Fay, and consider the implications for yourself.

Hint... gold at night becomes leaves and stones in the morning.

Clever still has to be congruent.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Aperazor
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I think Mike is on to something with his comments.
I recently bought a bunch of Gold Ikes and have used them for some friends doing a misers routine, coins across change and even using a red silk to do Amarrs coins through silk with the coins changing from silver to gold.
It didn't have near the effect I thought it would on the spectators and they also became more interested in trying to figure out the method.
I'm still going to find some way to do something with these...if I hit on anything I'll let you know.
Nick
Jonathan Townsend
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In more direct response to the initial question:

1) It's important to account for the magic. Why specifically do the coins change from what you produced, into something?

2) What do you want to do with the coins having produced them?

3) What would you like the audience to feel and believe about the coins you produced?

Okay, you are the magician, and will have your own answers to these questions.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
cloneman
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Thanks for the advice, guys.

Wildstone, I think I agree with you. I'll stick with the appearing Ikes with no gold transposition.

Jonathan, you gave me some good questions to keep in mind as I construct my routine.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
Mike Wild
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Thomas,

Just a quick follow up to my last post.

I tried out a Miser's variation yesterday evening at the coffee house that I perform at from time to time, using your concept of changing the coins from one type to another. I did the miser's routine, and then put my cup on the table, plucking "gold dollars" out, and changing them one at a time into silver halves under the premise of "gold is always nice, but for this next illusion I'll need something made of silver..." Then proceded to do a spellbound flurry to change the coins into silver one at a time. It actually became more of a routine all by itself, and less of a part of the Miser's. It seemed to play well, made sense (for the most part), and, I think anyway, added a bit of a "wow factor" to the set. I guess it plays all right. My only problem with it was that there really was no reason for the coins to be gold in the first place, which makes the need to change them to silver an extra and uneccessary effort, which I usually try to avoid in my magic.

It didn't seem to detract from effect, so I would consider it a personal preference thing at this point.

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Alym Amlani
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Sorry for the ignorance, but what's a spellbound FLURRY?
I've never heard of that before.
Logic Defied
Mike Wild
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Just a way to describe a quickly performed series of different spellbound changes.

Mike
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Tom G
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Changing the coins from gold to silver sounds like the ongoing argument with the $100 bill switch. Why
change a $1 bill to a $100 bill then back to a $1.
Sirakor
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The only vaguely 'logical' answer to that question is: because you can.
Brad Burt
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Howdy:

I think Tom G nailed it. Why produce gold and change it to silver? Much of what happens magically in our shows makes not the slightest sense at all, but that's not a reason to do the odd. Produce what you are going to use OR have a terrific reason for making the change. One that answers the question: WHY? Try this with ALL of your magic and see what happens....

WHY...am I producing this money from the air?
WHY...am I producing dollars instead of halves?
WHY...am I...and just go from there...
WHY...would I vanish the money once produced?

I have a much longer monograph, unpublished, titled "WHY...the most important qustion in Magic", but here's a mini version. In effect, the closer you can get to answering the 'why' question in all your routines the closer you will get to making your magic meaningful to your audience and the closer they will be to accepting it. Let me give you an example from Mentalism, because it is easy to see and make the connection.

Consider...You go up to a person and ask them if they believe that someone can fortell the future? WHY? Because, it just fun? No...Because, if you COULD fortell the future then it might be possible to.....(fill in the blank). You ask them to name their favorite color, number and a dead relative. WHY? Because, those things are closely connected to the person you are talking to and they fill her aura, blah, blah, blah. You hand here the paper you wrote the items she selected totally at random and reach into your pocket and pull out a folded over and glued together piece of paper. You give it to them and they open to find that you 'predicted' what she would select. WHY? Because, you want to prove that not only is it possible IN WHATEVER LIMITED SENSE YOU ARE CAPABLE OF, that folks CAN look into the future. And, that you are one of those gifted folks.

The question WHY frames what we do as magicians. An actor has not the same problem if you will. An Actor, well, acts. So do magicians, but WE make our own plays and contextualize what we do OURSELVES. We act, write and direct and thus WE are the ones responsible for the outcome. The WHY question can help keep us tuning up what we do so that the logical nature of our presentations becomes as powerful as possible.

Please don't take this wrong, but so much of what we do is trivial. Take Color Monte. Just do the routine as most do it...even myself...and its great, but it's like a nice jolt of coffee. Their and gone. But, couch it in a true desire (you say) to share with folks how THEY can keep from being taken by the swine that cheat folks on the street....and, you have brought it closer to where most people live.

We should be like the little child who goes through the phase of asking 'why' every two seconds. Until...we reach the point in any routine that we have in fact answered that question finally and can move on.
Many of us do this without thinking about it. What I am suggesting is that we do it more self conciously. By the way...if this idea starts to keep you from DOING MAGIC because of a certain paronoia that can creep in? STOP IT. Really. No problem. I have found the technique useful, but it has gotten out of control for me several times. "Can't answer that qustion at this point...hmmm, I'll have to wait!" Forget that. Use it if it seems to help tighten up your performance. Otherwise ignore it. Best,

Brad Burt
Brad Burt
Mike Wild
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I agree Brad, however, I would humbly add that in this particular scenario, the problem of "why" shouldn't even be reached. The Miser's Dream effect is about producing a seemingly endless supply of coins from a hat, or a cup, or whatever (hat was first of course, but that doesn't discount all of the other creatively devised receptacles that have made their way into the routine over the years). It is not a metamorphesis effect wherein coins of one type or denomination change into those of another type or denomination. That changes the routine completely. It's no longer Misers Dream at that point, it's now a variation of the Roth Coins to Cup or Mike Rubinstein Midas Touch routines. Both excellent in their own right, but neither a Misers Dream.

We should always ask why we are doing something, and have a suitable and sensible answer to that question. But in this case we should be asking, "what are we doing?", not, "why are we doing it?".

Best,

Mike

Correction - Not Mike Rubinstein's Midas Touch routine... it's Mike Rubinstein's Twilight Zone routine. Sorry Mike.

Best,

Mike
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"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Pete Biro
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Gold to Silver is backwards. If you want to do it at all, I would produce the silver coins, THEN with your "Midas Touch" increase their value by changing them to Gold.

What is the venue? Stage, parlout, close-up? That would make a difference.

You should see Joe Porper's new Miser's Dream coctail shaker... automatic and with a greata coin wand, dropper, etc.

He also makes a new killer Ike Dollar coin producing wand.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Mike Wild
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I've heard many great things about that wand and shaker... If I wasn't such a hard-core fan of B. Solari's Miracle Miser cup (minus the accessories and with an added "secret" of my own) I'b be shelling out the dough for those Porper items as I type this Smile

btw Peter, you're preaching to the choir RE: the gold to silver change. Brad was right on target as well. I'm no fan of needless complications or metamorphesis' without explanation. This was a thought that Thomas had pertaining to the effect, and it looks as though he decided against it a while ago.

If I were going to make something change into something else during the Miser's routine, it would be the coin pail... not the coins Smile

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
magicinsight
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Besides being an extremely nice collectable item, what are the benefits, if any, in actually using Mr. Porper's new coin cocktail shaker? Do you really need a $1,500.00 pail to pluck coins out of children's ears?

I am a big fan of Mr. Porper's items, but other than being a high end collectable piece of apparatus, and nothing wrong with that in of itself, I just cannot justify paying such a high price for an effect when there are numerous, inexpensive gimmicked and ungimmicked methods of accomplishing the exact same effect. Please do not get me wrong. I have not personally seen this item and I am not judging the craftsmanship of this item or the routine that comes with it. I owuld apprecaite it if anyone can enlighten me about the practical, real life benefit of this mechanical shaker.
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
mattisdx
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Why work with classics when you can make your own revolutionary techniques ?
magicinsight
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Mattisdx,

Did I correctly sense a bit of sarcasm in your post or are you serious in your view that Mr. Porper's cokctail shaker is "revolutionary"? If the latter, please explain.

Best regards,

MI
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
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