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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2210 Posts 
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Here's a controversial opinion, from the great close up magician Eugene Burger no less.
Recently I've been reading through Mark Lewis' The Annotated Royal Road to Card Magic. In the section on the Double Lift, Mark shares something about Eugene Burger's thoughts on this sleight: "Perhaps this tendency to overdo the sleight thus giving away the secret had something to do with the very excellent and late lamented close up magician Eugene Burger agreeing with the late Stanley Collins that the Double Lift is `at its best it is a feeble device; at its worst it is an abomination'!!!" Apparently Burger himself was of this view because it is a difficult sleight to do deceptively. In his words: "I find that most effects involving Double Lifts are pretty tedious because so few people can perform that sleight without telegraphing to the people outside that two cards are being shown." I thought I'd throw these quotes out there, given how commonly the double lift is used in card magic, with the idea that this viewpoint could spark some interesting discussion. What do you think? |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3133 Posts
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Ahhh, I don't know about that. As someone who worked restaurants for MANY years the card effects I performed involved DL's numerous times. Often because of the limited time I had at tables due to interuptions I wanted to at least give the patrons a quick magical experience. When an indifferent card changes into their previously selected signed card IN THEIR HAND, well that was astonishing to them.
Also, I performed a routine I learner from Richard Sanders, Mr. Stickman, that required multiple DL's but was, from my experience, extremely entertaining. The focus is on the drawing on the back of a card and it's antics, so the DL is camouflaged imo. It depends on the routine and structure. I admired Eugene Burger and value his expertise. I just have a different point of view depending on the situation and effect performed.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Any sleight can be overdone and any sleight can be executed improperly. Should some magicians not rely as much on the DL as they do? Probably. I've always said it is refreshing to see an Ambitious Card Routine without any conventional DLs. It really isn't that hard to do if you think about it. But I will always use the DL, regardless of what any pundits opine. It's too good a move to waste.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1741 Posts
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I'm not sure if Eugene Burger felt as strongly about the DL as Stanley Collins. Maybe he did. He wasn't a fan of the move and was working to remove it from his repertoire towards the end of his life. We've had this discussion before concerning Chicago Opener (a trick Eugene didn't like either).
I think the DL is a fine move, but only if you put the work into it to make it look effortless. I also don't think it should be something that a beginner should learn straight away; it is a much harder move than it appears to be. It is easier to do a deceptive Top Change than a convincing DL because you don't have as much natural misdirection to cover the deception. This means that your technique needs to be spot on to make your doubles look natural. The DL is also easy for a layperson to deconstruct, even if your technique is good. I think this is the real reason Eugene disliked it. Marty |
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Julie Inner circle 3933 Posts
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Honestly, the majority of adults is too polite to call out a double lift, BUT clever kiddies on the other hand...
Julie |
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ssibal Veteran user 353 Posts
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The double lift just isn’t a natural movement. It’s an artificial movement that many can flawlessly execute but anyone with a shred of common sense knows that something funny just happened.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2022, ssibal wrote: I'm sorry but I don't know why you say this. Turning over two cards as one is just as natural as turning over one in many people's hands. Personally I do a strike double most of the time and it is very natural. No get-ready, no break, no hesitation, just revolve the card(s) over. It can look very natural, but it takes skill I guess.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3133 Posts
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I would often times hand a deck to a layperson and just ask them to turn over the top card.
It was interesting as well as a learning experience to see how various people would execute it. Aaron Fisher has some great teaching on the move as well as Tommy Wonder.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2568 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2022, ssibal wrote: Sorry but I think that's utter codswallop. For example, if you perfect either (or both) the Dai Vernon DL or the Harry Lorayne Kick version, they're about the most natural way of flipping over and displaying the top card of the pack possible. The only downside of the move in my honest opinion, is that it has influenced many Ambitious Card Routines to go on for far too long. 
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2022, Merc Man wrote: Agreed! The only thing I would add is if you do rely on a get-ready, why not do it and then wait a bit before performing the DL? Fiddling around the back of the deck and then immediately changing hand positions to lift the card(s) does tend to create suspicion. So split it up with a little time misdirection or get the break with a pinky count or something. The DL isn't the problem, it is the folks that attempt it.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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jim ferguson Veteran user Ayrshire, Scotland 386 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2022, Tortuga wrote: I think that is essentially it - the double lift/turnover is an excellent sleight, when done correctly. I've seen many sleights butchered by the unpracticed - but that doesn't mean the actual moves are bad. Jim |
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3133 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 28, 2022, Tortuga wrote: BINGO !!! Can't remember where I learned this but it's great: After the get ready and you have a slight pinky break under the top two cards, just release/relax your hand and the cards will move as one to the right side of the deck. You just have to experiment with the move but looks very convincing. Very easy to turn the 2 cards over as one.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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Courtesy of Mr. Denis Behr and conjuringarchive.com
https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/se......+double+ Ascanio had his way of doing the move. The technique described by David above works too, but assumes you already have the break.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Leo H Inner circle 1359 Posts
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The late great Frank Garcia admitted that he collected DLs. I adopted his habit as well and have about ten different methods in rotation. Some are turnovers, and some are lifts off the deck.
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ssibal Veteran user 353 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2022, Merc Man wrote: DaiVernon and Harry Lorayne ( and anyone who mastered their techniques ) may have very good and undetectable double lifts but they don't perform the action of turning over a card like any normal person does. The next time you perform, hand the deck to your spectators and ask them to turn over the top card and place it on top of the deck. I guarantee that most will not do it in a manner similar to how Vernon and Lorayne perform a double lift. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7116 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2022, ssibal wrote: 1 This is a really bad idea 2. Eugene Burger also agreed that magicians, while avoiding overt displays of skill, should still handle cards more adeptly than a layman would. |
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tenchu Inner circle Europe 1143 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2022, ssibal wrote: Agreed. But, if you're trying to show you're a card expert, handle cards like one. If you want to hide your skill and play it sloppy like Lennart Green, for example, then yeah -- more sophisticated techniques are not the best choice. Mike |
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2568 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 29, 2022, ssibal wrote: Well that's it - you've convinced me that I've been doing it wrong for all these years. From now on, I'm never going to do a riffle shuffle again. I'm going to do what a spectator does - a half-arsed overhand shuffle, whilst dropping cards all over the floor. No more one-handed cuts. I'm just going to slap the cards down into the nearest puddle of beer or gravy on the table. Finally, the only card trick that I'm ever going to perform from now on is the 21 Card Trick. 
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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PressureFan Regular user 110 Posts
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Good one, Merc Man! I'm going to start licking my thumb before taking a card.
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KevinWisch Loyal user 203 Posts
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The video above was recorded at SAM Parent Assembly NYC as part of the Slydini Legacy tour in Dec 2019. Video shows my father explaining his double lift utilizing the Wisch Wedge. He told the story of how it fooled Vernon three times when he showed it to him! In attendance were David Roth, Dorothy Dietrich and Dick Brooks, Joel Zaritsky, George Schindler and many other NYC magicians. Listen to those crowd reactions when he shows the double! The double lift, done in the proper context and with the proper technique (in this case utilizing my father’s Wisch-Wedge) is undeniably an extremely important move in magic. |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Eugene Burger agreed that the Double Lift is at best a feeble device, at worst an abomination. (36 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jan 25, 2022 02:59 am 
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