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JoeHohman Special user Erie 716 Posts 
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For what it is worth, here is something that I do. When I am structuring a routine, I usually try to limit it to 3-4 different tricks. I won't do more than one trick that relies on the DL & DT. I also won't do more than one that relies on an Elmsley, I won't do more than one that utilizes an Ascanio spread, I won't do more than one that uses a palm, etc.
I try to usually do at least one where the spectator gets to handle the cards ("Ok, now let's have YOU do a trick...."). And I always like to mix in something other than cards, like coins, ring on string, bills, etc. But that's just me. And I recently witnessed one of my buddies just SLAY a group of spectators using NOTHING BUT DLs and DTs. I think there are a lot of valid points on both sides of this argument. |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1337 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 1, 2022, MattyMediocrity wrote: I rediscovered magic about 18 months ago. Studying and practicing helped me stay sane during the covid lockdowns. My DL (and other magic skills) have evolved constantly during that time. I can say the same about other motor skills I have learnt in my life - eg martial arts and dancing. |
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2022, Nikodemus wrote: I don't really know how much a DL could evolve once it looks exactly how you turn a single over... but yeah, I'm with you generally on skills evolving. I've got a deck in my hand at least 12 hours a day
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day 
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1337 Posts
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Mine still doesn't look exactly how I turn over a single card - and certainly didn't after 1 hour! Now I would say my DL looks very nonchalant, and looks close enough to how someone might turn a card over not to draw too much attention.
Also I have several DL's not just one. In martial arts, you become better and better at the techniques you learn on the lower grades, as your overall understanding deepens. They are in no sense "inferior" to what you learn on higher grades. I believe the DL is similar in magic (or can be if you choose to treat it that way). |
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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I'm not into all of the flip floppy spinny fancy DLs. I have plenty of flourishes for that. I've got two small convincers I've been messing with, but I honestly like the super simple DL that looks just like how I turn over a single. The reason I asked people to take a look at it is because I feel like I must be overlooking something with all of the skepticism over having a good double in just an hour... or people saying it's not a beginner move...but I'm seeing people would prefer give general advice opposed to specific critique.
I'm still learning this interwebs stuff, lol, I'll figure it out eventually.
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day
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jim ferguson Veteran user Ayrshire, Scotland 386 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2022, davidpaul$ wrote: Being entertaining and getting positive reactions doesn't necessarily mean the audience has been fooled. If the positive reactions are of amazement because they believe they have witnessed something impossible, then your sleights are solid. While it goes without saying that we should be entertaining, magic, by it's very nature, must fool. Jim |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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MattyMediocrity said...
".but I'm seeing people would prefer give general advice opposed to specific critique." When people post a video and ask for critique, many are happy to give it. Otherwise, generalities are the only thing to go by.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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jim ferguson Veteran user Ayrshire, Scotland 386 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 1, 2022, MattyMediocrity wrote: I agree with Magicfish, the double lift isn't really a beginners move. What I've quoted is part of the problem with the double lift. It seems so simple, the turning over of two cards as one, and yes, someone can learn the basic action pretty quickly - and often the student thinks they've "got it" and moves on. But, doing the sleight convincingly, deceptively, and without suspicion is a different thing entirely. The double lift is like the French Drop of cards - it too seems very simple, and the basic mechanics can be picked up a few minutes after reading the description. Yet it is butchered by many who use it - wrongly thinking it is a simple beginners sleight, which doesn't require the same work and attention to detail as other more complicated sleights. Jim |
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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I want add a caveat to saying the DL was a beginner's move for me.
IMO it's a beginner move IF you have a pinky count. Very early on in my card magic journey, I saw a YouTuber insist that the pinky count is an essential for anyone who is going to take card magic seriously, so that's literally one of the very first things I learned. I could pinky count 15-20 cards before even trying a double. When it came time to just pop two and flip 'em over, it came quickly. I'll also add that even though I forget the YouTuber who recommended that, I think I agree with him. (Xavier Spade maybe?) Because I learned the pinky count first things first, there were some cool moves that came quickly... the top shot, coffin change, a lot of stuff in the forces unseen book, triples, ambitious riser... hecc... I've almost got Raise Rise performance ready. Whatever card magic I would be currently doing would look very different if I didn't get the pinky straight away.
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2022, Tortuga wrote: I think I've asked four times now if anyone would take a look. I would've thought DMing someone would be more along the lines of Café etiquette. I don't think I've seen a single person post a performance vid and say, "what do you think of this?". So I was trying to get a little thing going, but the conversation has actually turned a little amusing. Honestly, after reading some responses, I'm not sure how valuable any critique would be. I'm new to online stuff, I'll stop asking this stuff and eventually find a discord or something so I can see the level of the people I'm jamming with.
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day
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jim ferguson Veteran user Ayrshire, Scotland 386 Posts
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Posting videos for feedback/critique is actually quite common here. In the card and coin sections you often see videos posted and the OP asking for feedback. There is also an entire section devoted to videos for feedback - "You Oughta Be In Pictures".
You could post your video there. If someone has an INVISIBLE way of getting a break, be it a pinkie count, thumb count, or any other technique, then that will help tremendously with most double lift/turnovers. But that is only a part of the move. If you decide to post your video in the section I mentioned, I'll be happy to take a look. A video of you simply doing a double lift in isolation is of no value if you want real feedback. It needs to be used in a trick, so we can see it in the proper context. Jim |
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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Hey! Thanks, Jim!
- "Posting videos for feedback/critique is actually quite common here. In the card and coin sections you often see videos posted and the OP asking for feedback. There is also an entire section devoted to videos for feedback - "You Oughta Be In Pictures". You could post your video there" That's an excellent heads up. I sincerely appreciate the genuine advice... though it doesn't look like those sections get much attention. - "A video of you simply doing a double lift in isolation is of no value if you want real feedback. It needs to be used in a trick, so we can see it in the proper context." That's interesting. My initial thought is that it's many times easier to show a double during a trick because there's all sorts of ways to misdirect while you get ready. It seems like just showing the move cold with your hands being burned is the purest form in which to judge the technical aspects of the move. But you're the one offering, so I'll cater to you, lol. Not this weekend but next I'm filming for a few releases at my buddy's speak easy style poker room. I'll be sure to throw in a quickie DL during something or other and I'll be back in touch ☺
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day
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Wravyn Inner circle 3692 Posts
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Another thing you can do is use YouTube. Save your video as private and you can share a link with another person that they can view it. Not shared with the whole world or Café (unless you desired to do that).
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stevevoltz.jpg "View Profile") New user 55 Posts
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Had never seen the Wisch Wedge before, but after seeing it I wonder why, assuming I can learn it, I'd do a double any other way. That said, I don't think most lay audiences think about it much and just take for granted that if you're doing card tricks at all you're probably better at handling cards than they are and so aren't surprised when you turn a card over differently than they might. And when you do it on the off beat, as Pop does with as he's telling a joke and looking at the audience and not the deck, I think it's very safe. And with the Chicago Surprise, the fact that it's the only red card in a blue deck, further establishes that you're holding a single card. Like any sleight however, if you over use it you'll educate your audience and get burned.
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stevevoltz New user 55 Posts
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All that said, take a look at John Scarne doing it here repeatedly, openly, and with absolutely zero misdirection. And he pulls it off. (No pun intended.) I doubt I'd ever be so bold to do this -- at least without a one liner or two for misdirection to take the heat off -- but no one has or ever will accuse me of being John Scarne. .
(And once again my youtube embeds don't want to play, so if the above doesn't play here's a direct link: John Scarne DL x4.) |
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magicfish Inner circle 7117 Posts
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2022, MattyMediocrity wrote: Yours is pretty flip floppy, and doesn't look like you're turning over a single card. It seems you've been influenced by Blaine with your desire to stay in contact with, and over snap, the corner. The double cannot be learned in an hour. And yes, it evolves. You wanted blunt. Keep practicing. It is an advanced sleight. Watch Williamson, Ammar, Carney, cervon, Jennings, Vernon, Skinner. Which books are you studying the Double from? P.s. Tell us why you think Eugene Burger didn't use a double. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7117 Posts
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Here is an effective technique by Bro. Hamman.
https://youtu.be/MtivFz_fYjc |
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magicfish Inner circle 7117 Posts
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Here is another from Mr. Jennings.
https://youtube.com/shorts/bcC2WWU62u4?feature=share |
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magicfish Inner circle 7117 Posts
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As I said, I do many different doubles- mostly to help others see what they look like. These aren't necessarily ones I use in performance.
The key is to make the double look the same as how you turn a single. |
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MattyMediocrity Regular user 169 Posts
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I've recently had someone I trust who is also VERY good, confirm that he loves my double. I still want to work further on it,but I'll only be talking with people who will show their abilities and ideas. I mentioned that a few posts ago. I need to know that the other person knows what they're talking about... which unfortunately can't done with words
If you're down to jam, lmk. You never know... maybe we'll help each other?
Creator of Molly Mayhem's 25 Cent Tacos <ultra visual coin bend>
I try to treat others as if this were a small community where we're likely to be face to face one day
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Eugene Burger agreed that the Double Lift is at best a feeble device, at worst an abomination. (36 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Feb 1, 2022 04:12 pm 
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