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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workshop » » Constructing a Floating Table (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Micheal Leath
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So, apparently Losander is the only one who can come up with subtleties necessary to create a convincing illusion of a floating table. He is also the only one who can build a high quality one because the rest of us are just "Home Depot Handymen." I hope I am not the only one who is offended by that because I'm sure there are some other very competent woodworkers here. Now I have never tried to build a floating table, but I'm sure I could do a great job also. Yes, it may take a lot of time and experimentation, but that is how you learn.

I am against stealing other people's material, but how can it be stealing if you have never seen one and build one of your own using published methods?
R2
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If you read carefully you will see that "Home Depot Handymen" was my comment. Dirk's comments start again immediately after that.

You don't seem to have a desire to own or even construct a table for that matter? Having said that, I am confused by your desire to debate this issue?

There is one thing you must know? Dirk is not the craftsman behind the Table. His father creates them in Germany and then ships them to Las Vegas.

My table has two very important design changes which aren't only aesthetic, but also add to the balance.

In the past and on other topics, I have enjoyed reading your posts Mr. Leath.

p.s. The original person who started this topic has yet to reply or chime in. It would seem that we are all just talking amongst ourselves? Good day sir!
~r2
Micheal Leath
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You are right, I don't have a desire to build one. I would love to own one though. I just do not see why someone should not be able to build their own Floating Table if they have the skill to do so. I'm sure there are some of us who could build one just as good or maybe even (though small chance) better. Someone could come up with their own subtleties or "improvements" that work for them.
alekei
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RE: "p.s. The original person who started this topic has yet to reply or chime in. It would seem that we are all just talking amongst ourselves?"

Well, Here I am. I have been reading each one of the posts, including of course, Mr. Losander's.

I respect the others work. Personally, even I haven't had the pleasure of knowing in person Mr. Losander, I consider him a great human being. (at least is what it seems, or what he transmits when he talks)

I agree with some posts, and disagree with others.

First, I would need to research about the original creator of a Flotaing table Idea. Was Mr. Losander the first person in the world who has the idea of floating a table? If he was, NO ONE can even try to construct a similar working system.

But as most of us are very creative people, we can get a lot of different methods for the same illusion, can't we?

So,.....Let's respect the others works, but at the same time let's make our creative juices flow inside our head and let's create alternative solutions for our problems.

Now that I know that Mr. Losander's father constructs the tables in Germany, I would like to ask to Mr. Losander if I can order directly to Germany his table, due I'm in Lisbon-Portugal. Maybe just that can make the table cheaper to me......(maybe I'm dead wrong)

Excuse me for my poor english skills.

Kindest regards,

Alejandro.
R2
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Alejandro you can reach his father who is currently staying with Dirk for the next couple of weeks in Las Vegas? Leave a message in an email or just call the phone number and leave one there? He can definitely arrange to drop ship you a table directly from Germany!

http://www.losander.com
kregg
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Gentlemen,
I would not shell out big bucks for a one trick pony, though I would for a great utility. The tables really look like childish mock ups meant for the designer junk heap and are rather lacking in style. They look like what they are... weightless tables. Norm Nielson's Violin and Zombie balls look heavier.
If you decide to build a table make it look HEAVY!

Kregg
POOF!
Chance Wolf
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Hmmmm...Kregg, it's nice of you to welcome yourself with a BANG into the Magic Café. As a designer and builder for over 25 years, I must say I couldn't disagree with you more. Losanders 2nd and 3rd version have a great deal of substance ( illusion of weight ) and a far beyond a "childish mock-up". Maybe you can grace us with your table designs, renderings, mock-ups or whatever you have whipped up on the ol' drafting board so we can learn from your example Smile
Please post a link so we can see the pics.

Regarding this effect being a "one trick pony", first off, most magic effects ARE a one trick pony...and if I were to pick a pony that would give the audience a true magical ride..this effect would be it. This effect is one of the most magical I have seen especially if it is in the right hands.
Chance Wolf
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Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

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bloodyjack
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Losander is coming to PCAM in Seattle next week I for one will go to his lecture. I think he shares tips on convincing floating it should be good. Maybe his dad will be there to if he is staying with him. My good friend has one and they are well made. The same friend who I consider the most talented and innovated magician I know purchased his but I know for a fact that he has made his own dill box as well as other effects. My point here is that making your own version of an effect does not automatically mean that you are not creative.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
kregg
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The original topic was, "Constructing a Floating Table". But, instead of discussing the hows and cooking up a better mousetrap the topic turned into how to blow your bankroll on a one trick pony.
Sure there are several one trick effects, however, sometimes you have to factor in the P/E ratio and Alejandro asked for help.
My workshop is currently designing a stainless steel (in appearance) table that looks like a monster to lift let alone float. It's private stock so you'll have to invent your own.

Cheers,
Kregg
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bcookmagic
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Hey there Kregg, from what it sounds like you are spending money on a "1 trick pony" I agree with Chance with wanting to see pictures. I have met Losander and I am bring him to this years PCAM and I am sure he loved your comment on his table. I also find it funny that your 1st comment rips on the table and then the 2nd comment you make rips on everyone else for not staying on the original topic....hey wait a minute you also just ripped on your self. I also would like to hear how you feel when people rip on your table after you spend many hours and money on R/D.
If your not having fun doing what your doing....dont do it!
WWW.BRIANCOOKMAGIC.COM
kregg
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This is why I contacted Alejandro in private first, before posting on the chat group site. I have no problem with the effort that goes into development and the need for proprietary agreements. That is why I posted privatly. The point is... it's my opinion that the gimmick (utility) is of better design than the physical look of the table. Opinions are the cheapest commodities on the planet, right or wrong we are all entitled. I encourage all who disagree to stay out of your workshops and clone your act like franchised fast food chain. The dealers are waiting.

Kregg
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bloodyjack
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Quote:
Dirk said, that in the future his next project will only be released to past clients of his original material and he urges Chance and Peter Loughran to consider the same? He respects original magic creations and that stealing from a store is no different than stealing from a creator of magic..."Either both pay a fine and do time or neither? "Same difference!"

1. Hmmm that’s a really good business plan for a couple of people who make their living manufacturing effects! I would love to here their reply.

2. Stealing would be me stealing a Losander table. Making my own version is not.
With your logic only Ford could make Automobiles and GMC are stealing them.
3. Stevens magic not only stocks Losanders but a number of knock offs too and apparently that’s fine. Why would L still sell his product in a place that sells knock offs?
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
bcookmagic
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Hmmmm , I think I am going to watch the first exposure special that Fox ran and apply the technique they used for the levitation to this floating table thing. I am just wondering if the smell from the diesal engine of the fork lift will annoy the audience.
If your not having fun doing what your doing....dont do it!
WWW.BRIANCOOKMAGIC.COM
R2
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B.j. wrote___________
3. Stevens magic not only stocks Losanders but a number of knock offs too and apparently that’s fine. Why would L still sell his product in a place that sells knock offs?
end of quote_________

The Mikame table carried by Steven's uses a different principle to achieve the effect as does the wellington.

These aren't considered knockoffs.

Please remember....the levitation principle used to achieve Losander's version was created and improved upon by Dirk. Dirk's table is the only one licensed by Tommy Wonder to do so.....

Also....creating your own table is one thing, but to then rip off Tommy Wonder's concept for achieving the effect is quite another?

Ethics are something some of us value....There is no mandate for you to follow, but your own conscience?

In the world there are givers and takers! Define which one you are and then sleep tight tonight with your answer? You can have all of mine if you need it?

Respectfully submitted,~R2
bloodyjack
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I have mentioned before on this post that TW,s improvments to th Z***** gimmick are in print
and therefore anybody can use it to create an object to float.
Book of Wonder volume 2
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Micheal Leath
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Quote:
On 2004-07-26 16:44, ReyRey Puentes wrote:
Also....creating your own table is one thing, but to then rip off Tommy Wonder's concept for achieving the effect is quite another?


As I understand it, one of his levitation methods is published. How can you be ripping it off if it is published? Is everyone who creates an effect using a Double Lift ripping someone off? How about other effects that use a variation of the Zombie gimmick? Are they too ripping off someone?
David Garrity
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Just to clarify,

Yes, some of the modifications to the TW zombie gimmick are published in his book, and it was meant for use with a zombie. Also, methods for floating tables are published as well.

However, it was Losander's idea to apply the TW technology to a table to make it float. If you want to apply the TW technology to some other object to make it float, great. If you are using it to float a table, then you are not doing right by Dirk.

Before Losander, no one put the two together.

Sincerely...
Micheal Leath
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So, if someone uses a thread for the Dancing Hanky, are they stealing?
David Todd
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Quote:
On 2004-07-26 22:42, David Garrity wrote:


Before Losander, no one put the two together.



Amen, David Garrity .

And that was my point , earlier on in this thread.

All the various Floating Tables that are being offered in magic magazines and on eBay somehow never managed to appear before Losander's became popular. Amazing how people who never made the connection before are now claiming : "oh ,well, it's just a simple refinement of the zombie gimmick ....... any dope could have figured that out , right ? "

Ummmmm........ well, no , actually, anyone else DID NOT figure it out before Dirk Losander started making his table . Doesn't that tell you something ?

------


Quote:
On 2004-07-26 17:06, bloodyjack wrote:
I have mentioned before on this post that TW,s improvments to th Z***** gimmick are in print
and therefore anybody can use it to create an object to float.
Book of Wonder volume 2


To Bloody Jack:

Do you or do you not own the Books of Wonder ?
I have to wonder ? (pun intended) .
If you know the zombie and you also know what is published in the Books of Wonder AND you know what is involved with Losander's Floating Table then you have to know that what Tommy reveals in the Books of Wonder is not enough to arrive at a Dirk Losander Floating Table.
bloodyjack
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Your right I do not own the TW,s books. I have read them about 4 years ago I think when they had just come out. A friend of mine loaned them to me. Another friend has an L table and showed me the workings but I was not paying that much attention and put 2 and 2 together and obviously made 5. Now you have made me interested and I will make a point of checking my friend’s table out and see what these refinements are.
Don’t want to give stuff away here but the one thing I remember was a curvy fulcrum action (hope that is obscure enough) but now I could not say if I got that from the book or the table.
That’s were I don’t understand most of the peoples objection to trying to fashion ones own, because the people that attempt to do this with out knowing how the real deal works might come up with some thing better and to quote Chance

"After reading your last post, you seem to be the kind of guy that would come up with a completley new way of floating a table if you chose to pursue the project. Which is even better since that is the way our whole industry grows"
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
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