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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Pros and cons of different mem decks (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

adrianrbf
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I would like to get into mem deck magic. What is your favourite mem deck and why? I am considering learning either Mnemonica or the Aronson stack. Which one would you prefer and why? Or is there a less known mem deck that I am missing?
ddyment
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You might find my essay on full-deck stacks of value in this regard.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
adrianrbf
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, ddyment wrote:
You might find my essay on full-deck stacks of value in this regard.


I do, thank you!

Most mnemotic aids to learn the stack seem to rely on the English language. The same must be true for any built-in spelling tricks. Since my mother tounge and performance language is German, is there a stack that could be considered the most "international" not relying on English?
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, adrianrbf wrote:
Most mnemotic aids to learn the stack seem to rely on the English language. The same must be true for any built-in spelling tricks. Since my mother tounge and performance language is German, is there a stack that could be considered the most "international" not relying on English?

If you are going to learn a memorized deck to do spelling tricks, you can spend your time more usefully.
I think it's WAY too early for you to thinking about a memorized deck.
Sorry.
ddyment
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Adrianrbf wrote:
Quote:
Most mnemotic aids to learn the stack seem to rely on the English language.

If you read an English-language website, most of the discussion will be on English-based system. There are equivalent techniques in other languages (a good reference for German systems is this one).

Three of the four memorization approaches discussed in my aforementioned essay are language independent, though.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Waterloophai
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Sorry, but EVERY mnemotic aid and peg word can be adapted to any language.
If one does not understand that, then ... oh nevermind
adrianrbf
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, Waterloophai wrote:
If you are going to learn a memorized deck to do spelling tricks

I was just asking a question and I am interested in both information and opinion. However, please to not judge my motivation from the very limited information you have.
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, adrianrbf wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, Waterloophai wrote:
If you are going to learn a memorized deck to do spelling tricks

I was just asking a question and I am interested in both information and opinion. However, please to not judge my motivation from the very limited information you have.

I am not judging your motivation at all. It's not about your motivation.
stickmondoo
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I use Mnemonica. I first learnt Aronson. I prefer Tamariz stack. I use half stack a lot and first half of Tamariz only contains Ace of spades. This means you can do hundreds of shuffled card tricks and poker dems with the royal flush and aces and then just return 1 card to order and be able to do amazing memory tricks. This is why I personally prefer Mnemonica but they are both great. Being able to end a routine with deck in order is also but I hardly ever do this.
Proxy
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2022, stickmondoo wrote:
I use Mnemonica. ...Being able to end a routine with deck in order is also but I hardly ever do this.



Ending in NDO is a nice feature of Mnemonica but is tedious to do the 4 perfect riffle shuffles/faros to get there. I don't imagine many professional workers are ending a Mnemonica in NDO.
kevlingo
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My stack of choice is the Redford Stack. It's based on Si Stebbins so with a few easy shuffles, it's easy to switch between stack and Stebbins (which has an easy NDO finish) as well as other useful stacks. Like most mem-decks it has built-in spelling, gambling (poker and blackjack), and other interesting attributes.
glowball
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The magician stands on the other side of the room and a spectator cuts the deck several times and deals four cards to four other spectators. The magician asks the four spectators what suit their card is and with only this knowledge (no stooges, no marked cards) the magician reveals what the four cards are.

This trick cannot be done with the Mnemonica Stack but can be done with the Aronson Stack.

This is one of my favorite tricks and why I like the Aronson Stack.

https://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopi......orum=205
Haruspex
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With the exception of spelling tricks or gambling demonstrations, most Mem. Deck effects can be done with any stack.
I would suggest, pick one. It seems that many people spend more time on choosing a stack than it would actually take to learn it.

I use my own stack, but have used other stacks in the past.
I changed over to my own after seeing the ease with which Darwin Ortiz gets into his stack from NDO. I played around with the concept I saw Darwin use until I had a stack that looked random.
Actual memorization took 2 to 3 hours split over 2 evenings. Half of the deck one evening the other one the next.
After this you can start to play around with it and practice some routines, allowing to get more familiar/confidant with your newly learned stack.

For the actual memorization you can use different approaches, to learn more about mnemonics you can check out Harry Loraynes books, some of which have been published in German.
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Apr 19, 2022, glowball wrote:
The magician stands on the other side of the room and a spectator cuts the deck several times and deals four cards to four other spectators. The magician asks the four spectators what suit their card is and with only this knowledge (no stooges, no marked cards) the magician reveals what the four cards are.

This trick cannot be done with the Mnemonica Stack but can be done with the Aronson Stack.

This is one of my favorite tricks and why I like the Aronson Stack.

https://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopi......orum=205



This is a neat idea!
I just analysed my own stack (based on Joyal 6-hour deck, with a few changes). There are 6 duplicate pairs of 4-suit sequences plus one 3-way duplication. In each case, there seems to be a way to fish without it being too obvious (EG. in both the SDDS cases there is an Ace). So it might also be that Mnemonica has such solutions.

I'm sure Glowball has already said this in one of his many erudite threads - if you deliberately designed in such a feature into a stack from scratch, you would only need a sequence of 3 suits to know exactly where you are in the stack. (There are 64 possible combinations of 3 suits (4x4x4) and obviously you only need to use 52).
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, adrianrbf wrote:
I would like to get into mem deck magic. What is your favourite mem deck and why? I am considering learning either Mnemonica or the Aronson stack. Which one would you prefer and why? Or is there a less known mem deck that I am missing?


I chose the Joyal stack ("6 hour memorised deck") because it was designed to be easy to learn, and I found the prospect rather daunting. This is based on [simple] mathematical patterns. I evaluated a couple of other "easy-learn" systems before starting, and found them to be merely poor cousins of the Joyal system.
Having learnt one stack, I feel much more confident about learning another one day - if/when I feel I want to.
glowball
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Nicodemus wrote:
"So it might also be that Mnemonica has such solutions."

About 4 years ago I analyzed Mnemonica (based on four card patterns) and found 11 places where duplicates occurred and five of those were triplicates so Mnemonica is probably not desirable for this particular trick (the "Suitability" trick).

Whereas the Aronson stack has zero duplicate four suit patterns and thus no equivoques necessary.
Claudio
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If I were in a situation to present Suitability, I would probably follow up with a second phase.

Ask your helper to deal a card to each of the 4 specs and have them put that card in their pocket, for example. The helper is then to deal a second round of cards and take one for himself.

You then perform Suitability with these 4 cards. You can then without any further info tell each of the 5 people which card they have in their pocket. It looks like a logical progression.

PS: Because you’re actually using 5 specs, it might be possible to disambiguate stacks that have duplications. When the 4 suits are called out, if it’s a duplicate combination, ask the 5th spec (the helper) to announce his own suit. I don’t know whether it’s sufficient to solve all the issues with Mnemonica as I have not studied it.
glowball
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I had also analyzed Mnemonica using five cards and it still had seven duplicate patterns (meaning 14 places where equivoque would be needed).

I think the reason Mnemonica it's not great for this particular trick is because it was designed to start from new deck order and do a couple of perfect faros etc therefore there are some residual duplicate suit patterns more so than with other mem decks.
Claudio
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OK, thanks for the info.
glowball
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Quote:
On Jun 10, 2022, Nikodemus wrote:
I'm sure Glowball has already said this in one of his many erudite threads - if you deliberately designed in such a feature into a stack from scratch, you would only need a sequence of 3 suits to know exactly where you are in the stack. (There are 64 possible combinations of 3 suits (4x4x4) and obviously you only need to use 52).



Yep, that's why I created the "Suitacaan-JS11" stack.

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......orum=205

It's the only wrapping stack I know of (other than the original Larsen and Wright 1928 Suitability stack) that can do the Suitability trick with only three cards dealt. Also the Suitacaan-JS11 stack can do simple calculation acaan on all the face cards and it also has a 10 card two hand Jonah poker deal built in.

If I wasn't so heavily invested in the excellent Aronson mem stack I would make Suitacaan-JS11 my non mem stack of choice.
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