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Golem13 New user 22 Posts |
For my money, I think Steve Dela's Night Flight deck is the best! The original version was blue and PVC only (which has its positives and negatives), but the new versions are standard card stock, red back, and they handle beautifully. The markings are incredibly easy to read, but so far not one spectator has picked up on the markings.
I guess because they are so easy to read, you only have to glimpse them so there's no obvious lengthy peering at the backs which raises suspicions. They look very similar to Bicycles and can be swapped in easily enough. No one notices. |
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Waterloophai Inner circle Belgium 1373 Posts |
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On Nov 7, 2022, Golem13 wrote: Don't forget to mention the price ... |
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Golem13 New user 22 Posts |
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On Nov 9, 2022, Waterloophai wrote: Actually these are very reasonable - order direct from Steve Dela's website and they're only £15 each (same as DMC Elites) |
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glowball Special user Nashville TN 936 Posts |
Ender's game, excellent post thanks!
I do the Nikodemus suggestion of using a mem deck (I often use marked cards in conjunction with my Aronson stack or Seven Queens stack). If the deck is cut by a spectator and let's say they deal four cards face down the magician needs a way to know at least one of the cards and a marked deck comes in handy. Once one of the cards is known then the magician knows the other three cards from memory and does not have to stare at the cards. Also doing a trick where the magician's back is turned the whole time is suggesting to the audience "the magician can't be using marked cards because he never saw the deck nor any of the cards when he was doing the trick". Note that the magician can tell the spectators to hide their cards and hide the deck in their purse or pocket before the magician turns around and does his patter. I have done this type of trick using a few breathers or scallops. After doing the above type trick the audience will consciously (or subconsciously) have ruled out marked cards then the magician can more confidently do tricks using marked cards. |
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Andy Moss Special user 713 Posts |
The good old Boris Wild if you have the eye for close up detail! I use this marked deck as my usual deck as it is perfectly examinable. Lay spectators only check around the petals on a bicycle back if they are awkward enough to bother to check the backs at all!
Perfect for a classic such as 'Marlo's Miracle location' as the face down card markings can be discerned from the edge. Also reverse stack Osterlind B.C.S and read from top. 'Test Card Conditions'. |
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timph New user 62 Posts |
Another vote for Steve Dela's Night Flight deck. The latest version (v3) is brilliant - so easy to read. Steve runs some great offers - e.g., 4 decks for £45 or 7 decks for £65.
I have other marked decks that I like but none are as straightforward or quick - the NF marks can be spotted from a long distance away too. |
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Deckstacker Elite user Sunny SoCal 442 Posts |
Looks like I've arrived a little late to this party, but having had time now to get familiar with both decks, I'd say it comes down to a dead heat between Steve Dela's Night Flight (v3) and Drummond Money-Coutts' DMC Elites (v4), the latter of which were really designed by Phillip Smith. Actually, I prefer the original Elites Rouge's to all later DMC versions, as they are marked in only one location for suit and value and thus appeal to my minimalist mentality more than subsequent "busier" versions. However, the Rouge edition is now long OOP and has become super-pricy (when you can find it at all), so the readily available green ones now rule, IMHO.
To get really nit-picky, both of these decks have a quirk or two that takes a point off from real perfection, mostly stemming from the occasional unsuitability of a particular card suit-value to be rendered in its marking system. (Take, for example, how a Jack of Spades almost embarrassingly shouts out its identity in the NF system, while a Queen of any suit can make you squint a little when first learning to read the backs. Similarly, in the DMC system, distinguishing between Jacks and Sevens is likely to give pause until you've practiced a while; and the Tens are likely to stump your eye in the beginning as your brain must make the leap from numeric to alpha interpretation.) There is also a distinct difference between the two decks in terms of handling. I'm not a cardist in any sense of the term, so the fact that a newly opened deck of NF's is so slippery that if set down slightly askew it is likely to spill/slide over under its own weight was something I had to learn to deal with. And the higher subjective contrast of the DMC green backs makes me prefer my old original Rouges in terms of being somewhat more discreet and hence slightly less likely for the marking system to be spotted by a spectator. Finally, it should perhaps be mentioned that both Dela's Night Flights and (IMO) the first runner-up Phoenix backs by Card Shark have designs that at least vaguely resemble the familiar Bicycle backs. Not that the DMC's are exactly jarring in their overall look--which is really quite "reassuring" in its simplicity--but I think that the NF's score at least one point over the DMC's here in terms of not arousing suspicion. Bottom line: Here, as in many other facets of life, personal preference must ultimately rule. I simply rejoice in having such wonderful tools as we magicians have these days to work our magic on a still (hopefully) unenlightened public.
Never try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time, and it annoys the pig.
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FlorianHeller Regular user Bonn, Germany 200 Posts |
I'm a bit sad that Phoenix marked decks have almost not been mentioned at all in those articles... I have been using them for about 10 years and to me they are the best commercially available marked deck for everyday work. I have the original DMC rouge, Madison Dealers (least visible one, but coders), butterflies, a box of Penguin's marked decks... I always come back to Phoenix. I wanted to make a deck with a half short deck and a half marked cards, and that already is not possible with Penguin's as the short decks on the site are either Rider or Mandolin, and the marked decks are Maiden... Not worth the bother with the 3 different Bicycle backs, Phoenix at least is unified. As for the others, DMC etc, to me they're more one off collector decks, I don't seem them working in an everyday setting, usually theyreyout of stock, or only newer version, etc etc. Now the Phoenix (and BW in Phoenix back) are available with a discount for large orders, so not €20 a deck anymore, iirc, for 2 boxes it's €10 a deck. I used to use the crap out of them because of the price, but now maybe I'll buy a few boxes and keep them a bit more fresh
As for marked decks with more information, like SUM, the code, marksman deck... Just learn a stack, it's not difficult, will be cheaper, and less marks on your decks for the same effects. |
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Deckstacker Elite user Sunny SoCal 442 Posts |
Artemis17- Hard to find fault with anything you have said. I absolutely agree that the Phoenix decks don't seem to get the love here that they deserve, especially for the way the marks blend with the overall design--truly inspired from an esthetic point of view.
Never try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time, and it annoys the pig.
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FlorianHeller Regular user Bonn, Germany 200 Posts |
Defintely engineered with the marks in mind, they're so well placed and easy to read. Compared to the Penguin's marked decks which even have suits instead of letters, I'd rather pay a few euros more a pack for Phoenix. But as it happens I have one brick of blue Penguin marked decks from 2019 that I never used Might as well try to use them before ordering new Phoenix ones...
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1332 Posts |
There is no such thing as one "best" marked deck for everyone.
If you have good eyesight (unlike me) there are many choices with small marks. I need them to be much more readable. I love the Phoenix deck, but they cost $20; whereas the Penguin decks are only $5 if you buy in bulk. If I were a professional, I would buy the best tool for the job. But as an amateur, price is more important to me. I agree with Penguin's sales pitch that their marked deck can be your everyday deck. |
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FlorianHeller Regular user Bonn, Germany 200 Posts |
Phoenix marked decks are 12.50 if you buy a brick, 10 if you buy 2
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1332 Posts |
Thanks, Florian
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Deckstacker Elite user Sunny SoCal 442 Posts |
Florian, Nikodemus, et al. - I am reminded here of my old business school mentor, the late Peter Drucker, whose caution regarding arguments about complex questions was to make sure that all parties are really talking about the same thing. Rent control (for example) may be viewed as a moral issue by a social worker, an economic issue by a landlord, or a political issue by a municipal alderman. A consensus can never be reached unless you first determine that everyone is coming at the issue from the same point of reference.
Regarding the question posed by the OP of this thread: It may be that some who will purchase and use several decks in a short period of time will consider price a major concern (economic issue) and thus may favor Penguins for their low cost. Others of us with less than keen eyesight may need the larger markings of the DMC Elites or Night Flights to help us read them at-a-glance (physical issue). Still others may shun 'reader' markings altogether and prefer esoteric coding systems for their presumed effectiveness in resisting undesired discovery by the occasional sharp-eyed spectator (psychological issue). If there is a pithy bottom line to be reached on this topic, I hereby cast my vote for Nikodemus' astute pronouncement: "There is no such thing as one 'best' marked deck for everyone." Whether you go with the flavor of the day or stick with your old favorites year in and year out, I'd simply observe that we're all blessed to have so many excellent choices.
Never try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time, and it annoys the pig.
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FlorianHeller Regular user Bonn, Germany 200 Posts |
@Deckstacker, 100% agree, there is not best marked deck for everyone, best we can do is best for different situations and people, as you said Penguins are more economic, Phoenix more engineered, DMC more visible and from further away while staying hidden, Boris Wild faster at finding a card and less marks, Madison almost unnoticeable, etc etc. I am also very grateful that we have so many great choices, 20-30 years ago this wouldn't have been the case.
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Deckstacker Elite user Sunny SoCal 442 Posts |
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On Apr 16, 2023, FlorianHeller wrote: You just got me strolling down Memory Lane ... recalling my very first Enardoe's Wonder Deck with that clever clock face. Ah, the thrilling sense of empowerment! That was back in the 1950's when I was just a beardless teen blowing all my allowance every week at Ireland's Magic in downtown Chicago. There were the Deland's decks as well, but those and the Enardoe's were really the only commonly available choices, unless you had someone like the lovely Frances Marshall tipping you off to the hand-marked Bee's and Bike's that the KC Card Company produced in small quantities for the elite of the magic community (and a few professional gamblers, of course). --Glad I've been blessed to live long enough to enjoy the great variety of choices we have today.
Never try to teach a pig how to sing. You will waste your time, and it annoys the pig.
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Peter X New user 30 Posts |
I would love to hear everyone's opinion on my Bicycle Invoked Playing Cards. It combines the DMC Elite marking system and can be seen from very far, with the genius Butterfly marking system and more. I worked on them for more than 6 years to get them to where they are now. Check them out here: https://magicandcards.com/bicycle-invoked/
www.magicandcards.com
Instagram: @magicandcardsdotcom https://www.instagram.com/magicandcardsdotcom/ |
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JuanPoop Loyal user Luckily for you, I only have 244 Posts |
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On Jun 7, 2024, Peter X wrote: I am very partial to DMC Elites and can see the similarity in the optical marking system. Just by watching the trailer I could pause the video and determine each card’s value and suit very clearly. When the final waterfall move was being shown, every card was discernible (when paused). These look very good to me and I am sure I haven’t even seen all of their secrets yet. Well done. P.s. I suspect shipping to Australia might prove to be a problem. :-(
aka Lucky John
Sydney, Australia |
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Peter X New user 30 Posts |
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On Jun 8, 2024, JuanPoop wrote: Thank you! Shipping to Australia is not a problem. Let me know if you need more information
www.magicandcards.com
Instagram: @magicandcardsdotcom https://www.instagram.com/magicandcardsdotcom/ |
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ChristianM New user Eaubonne - France 15 Posts |
For me, the best marked deck is the deck I mark myself. So, no need to buy a specific deck.
As I know a memorized deck, my marks are the position of the cards in the stack. |
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