

daveintheuk New user 2 Posts 
Afternoon,
I have the book, Mnemonica. After considerable effort, I have managed to commit the order to memory. I am now working on begin able to: 1) Name any card, instantly, from the card position given 2) Name the card position, instantly, from the card name To become proficient, are there any other sequences I should be looking at remembering, please? eg: 1) Red / Black order 2) Distance between card values (eg all Aces, all tens) 3) Reverse order (52 to 1) Thanks 
Nikodemus Inner circle 1361 Posts 
Hi Dave,
I am rather concerned by you saying you have learnt the "order" of the stack. Do you mean you can recite it from beginning to end? (Like we can all recite the alphabet?) If so, I am sorry to tell you that you seem to have misunderstood how a memdeck works. You need to focus on learning the pairings of card/position  which you say you are just now starting to work on. Doesn't the book make it clear that this is what you need to do to get the benefit from it??? The book includes several suggested methods to learn the pairings. But these are not the only learning methods available. There are threads on the CafÃ© where people discuss various methods. The "classic" method is to create memorable images using a system like this one  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_major_system I would definitely consider this approach. You should also know that there are other stacks as well as Mnemonica (again there are plenty of discussions here on the CafÃ©). I chose to learn Martin Joyal's stack from his Six Hour Memorised Deck book. It is designed to be easy to learn, but is not as random as Mnemonica. (It takes a lot longer than 6 hours though!) You need to get to the stage where you can name the card at any position pretty much instantly (say within a second), the same way you probably know the 10th month is October and August is the 8th month. (But probably don't now the 17th letter of the alphabet, or what position Q is at). It took me 23 months of daily practice to get to where I could do that. From that point on, the knowledge gets locked in by using it regularly. To answer your three questions  when you know the pairings well enough you will automatically be able to work out the colour of each card, distance between the Aces etc, reverse order etc. 
daveintheuk New user 2 Posts 
Good Morning, Nikodemus
Thank you for your considered reply. I should have pointed out, I have remembered both the card stack order, and the number order. I know the number for each card. Thanks 
Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1582 Posts 
I take two approaches...first, I tend to practice my memory work when I go on walks, so I create my own exercises  I think "Okay, name the position of all the aces, all the twos, all the threes...etc." Then I'll switch to something like "Starting with the Ace of Spades, jump to the 2 of hearts, then the 3 of clubs, then the 4 of diamonds and then 5 of spades"...etc. None of these exercise necessarily have any practical purpose, they're just challenges that help me become more comfortable with the order of the deck.
The second approach is that I find an effect I like and want to perform, and learn what is required to do that effect. For example, I love Denis Behr's Flop routine, which requires you to learn the number of cards between each 4 of a kind. So, that's a long way of saying, yes, play around with various combinations but also if you're going to spend time learning something specific, like knowing the distance between each card value, you might as well come out of it being able to perform a great effect! 
Nikodemus Inner circle 1361 Posts 
I agree with Mr Mindbender. Inventing your own exercises is a great way to reinforce your knowledge of your stack.
And you don't need a deck of cards to practice  you can just do it in your head. Dave  taking one of your examples, I don't see any need to "learn' the red/black order. But as an exercise, you should be able to turn the deck face down, and deal the whole deck into a red pile and a black pile. Likewise I can sort my stack into all 4 suits without looking. 
johnw New user 62 Posts 
I've just started learning a stack so I'm not about to give advice! Half way has taken me a week so far because I can't dedicate as much time to it as I'd like to.
I downloaded an app called Mnemonicosis which I quite like  it randomises questions for number to card and card to number and you can try to improve your speed, but also has a four of a kind test and an ACAAN trainer which asks things like "which card should be at bottom so that 9H is on number 51?". Making up further exercises is a good idea, and I'll be trying the one from Nikodemus  thanks. 
Melephin Regular user 107 Posts 
Very helpful to me was to throw the cards on the table in a mess and put the deck in order as fast as possible. If you get to the point, that you can do this very quickly without thinking, meaning while talking to the spectators, it will get you a lot of ideas, how you can set up a shuffled deck in Mnemonica in front of the spectators and also you will get the skill to find the cards in your stack quickly without thinking.

Matt G New user Boston, MA 77 Posts 
Quote:
On Feb 15, 2023, Melephin wrote: Better than putting all cards in stack one at a time, I'd suggest getting familiar with the Incondite Sorting Technique taught by Patrick Redford in Temporarily Out of Order (I'm sure it's taught in several other place as well). It not only drills the order, but also helps you get familiar with the cards' relationships with one another. Really valuable, and the fastest way (I know of, anyways) to go from a shuffled deck to stack order if you get good at it. Bob Farmer's Tarodiction Toolbox has some gems for sorting as well. 
Matt G New user Boston, MA 77 Posts 
Another great resource: https://joecreates.co.uk/magicians/
Ifyou can do it on the below settings: Test: Both, Order: Shuffled, Guess Time: 1 seconds, Reveal Time: 1.5 Seconds And you can go for ~6 minutes without missing a card (every card should appear 2x), your knowledge of your stack is locked in. That's basically instant recall, which IMO is enough to be performing confidently. 
ThomasJ Inner circle Chicago 1032 Posts 
Estimation and math would be another step once you are proficient in associating the card to the number (and vice versa) without having to think about it. Practice calculating the difference between card A and card B and estimate cutting the deck or obtaining a break at a specific card. Also, don't keep the deck in 152 order. Randomly cut the deck and estimate where a specific card is based on the new order of the chain rather than 4C and 9D on top and face. If it was originally the 25th card, where would it be if the face card is the 6 of Clubs? etc.

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