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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » LAZY-B1 stack (red) simplest also does number (odd) to card (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

glowball
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Lazy-B1 stack red card value times 4 then If diamonds plus 1, If hearts minus 1 .

My magician friends and I are looking for the simplest calculation (but barely passable randomness) acaan deck to do for waiters/waitresses (no other special features).

I tried the normal Barrie Richardson's Lazy Man's stack (red suits encoded stack) with my magician friends and it worked well but we wanted to also be able to go from number to card therefore I created my own Lazy-B1 stack and Lazy-B2 stack (surely someone has come up with this super simple red cards only variation before) that can do both ie: card to number and number (odd) to card (the normal Lazy Man's stack cannot do number to card).

LAZY-B1 red suits encoded (the B means it works both ways ie: card to number and number to card).

Multiply by four and If diamonds advance +1 but if heart then -1. This means (unlike the normal Lazy Man's stack) all the red suit cards will be in odd number positions.

Pros: super easy calculation, you can do card to number AND number (odd) to card.
The Cons: very patterned red black red black red black and the matching red values are only one black card apart however because the black cards are very hodgepodge it breaks up the look.

Also the fact that the spectators are focused in on the count of the cards while dealing the cards face up onto a single pile means there's not much attention on the discard pile which means that people really don't care much about what the cards are until we arrive at the count number.

Lazy-B1: card value times 4 then If diamonds plus 1, If hearts minus 1 .

Below shows stack positions: note the hearts and diamonds are ascending (the spades and clubs are hodgepodge filled in the even positions).
Below list the second number is the actual position within the stack.
Lazy-B1:
AD 4..5
2D 8..9
3D 12..13
4D 16..17
5D 20..21
6D 24..25
7D 28..29
8D 32..33
9D 36..37
10D 40..41
JD 44..45
QD 48..49
KD 52..01

AH 4..3
2H 8..7
3H 12..11
4H 16..15
5H 20..19
6H 24..23
7H 28..27
8H 32..31
9H 36..35
10H 40..39
JH 44..43
QH 48..47
KH 52..51

Lazy-B1
Rules:

Card to number:
Magician says "imagine a deck of cards, do you want me to pull out the red cards or the black cards"? Regardless of their answer you go with the red cards.
1. multiply the value by 4
2. If diamonds add 1 (if 53 wraps to 1)
3. If hearts subtract 1

Number to card (quotient will be the card value):
Magician says "to make it interesting name any odd number from one to 52".
a. divide number by 4
b. If remainder is 1 then diamonds
c. If reminder is 3 then hearts so ADD 1 TO THE QUOTIENT.

Actually Instead of noting a remainder of 3 you could just say to yourself "anything other than remainder one". This makes it a little easier to figure.
----------------------------------
glowball
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LAZY-B2 red suits encoded:
Same as lazy-B1 except the hearts are in descending sequence starting with the king.

This visually hides the value pattern better so the spectators wouldn't notice the red cards increasing their value together.

Make diamonds the normal ascending suit thus we will be doing the normal plus one on all the diamonds calculations. Make hearts (the minus 1 suit) descending so starting with the king, then queen, then Jack then 10 etc.

Pros and cons for Lazy-B2 are pretty much the same as Lazy-B1 except Lazy-B2 has a better looking spread. It's only con (vs B1) is the slightly more difficult calculations for hearts because of subtracting from 14.

Diamonds ascending, hearts descending (spades and clubs are hodgepodge filled in the even positions):

Lazy-B2
Rules:

Card to number:
Magician says "imagine a deck of cards, do you want me to pull out the red cards or the black cards"? Regardless of their answer you go with the red cards.
1. If hearts subtract card value from 14.
2. multiply the value by 4 (hearts and diamonds).
3. If diamonds add 1 (if 53 wraps to 1).
4. If hearts subtract 1.

Number to card (quotient will be the card value):
Magician says "to make it interesting name any odd number from one to 52".
a. divide number by 4.
b. If remainder is 1 then diamonds, quotient equals card value.
c. If reminder is 3 (hearts) ADD 1 TO THE QUOTIENT and then subtract result from 14.

Actually Instead of noting a remainder of 3 you could just say to yourself "anything other than remainder one". This makes it a little easier to figure.

Below shows stack positions: note Diamonds ascending, HEARTS DESCENDING (spades and clubs are filled in the even positions):

LAZY-B2:
Below list the second number is the actual position within the stack.
AD 4..5
2D 8..9
3D 12..13
4D 16..17
5D 20..21
6D 24..25
7D 28..29
8D 32..33
9D 36..37
10D 40..41
JD 44..45
QD 48..49
KD 52..01

KH 4..3
QH 8..7
JH 12..11
10H 16..15
9H 20..19
8H 24..23
7H 28..27
6H 32..31
5H 36..35
4H 40..39
3H 44..43
2H 48..47
AH 52..51

Note that even though Lazy-B2 looks better we will probably use Lazy-B1 because the calculations are easier.

Unless we like Q Stack better (I just ordered Doug Dyment's Calculated Thoughts book).
glowball
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I think there's a way you can do any number (including even numbers not just odd numbers) when doing number to card.

The spectator names any number from 1 to 52 but of course the card you name will always be a red card. If an even number is named you the magician will name one card after the number named.

If an even number is named it won't look quite as good as if they named an odd number because with an odd number named by the spectator you can hit the card on the nose.
Claudio
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If you want to hit the card when an even number has been called out, here’s a couple of self-working solutions:

Have the joker in the box. If an even number is called out, case the deck – under the pretext of not allowing anyone to glimpse any card of the deck – and ask your friend to call out a card. Then, have them remove the deck and do the dealing.

Or

Use a “sticky” double card (think R&S) as the first card. Whenever an even number is called, your friend will separate them during the dealing.

Also, regarding the equivoque on the colour at the begin of the ‘card to number’ effect, I suggest you go all the way with the elimination process to remove any doubt in the spec mind.

Tell your spec to imagine they’re spreading an imaginary deck between their hands. Ask them to call a colour.

If they call “black”, tell them all the black cards will vanish form the deck and only the red ones will remain.

Then tell them to call a suit: i.e. Hearts or Diamonds. Whatever suit they name, it’ll vanish away. Carry on like this until one card only is left in their hands.

It makes all the choices consistent and adds a bit of theatre to the selection process.
landmark
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I think the simplest solution if the spec names an even number is simply to use the next number for your calculations. Then tell him to pick up the deck in their hand and count that number of cards onto the table. Then instruct him to look at the top card of the remaining cards in his hand. That is, if the spec names 34, do the calculations as if 35 was named. The card in his hand he is looking at will be the named card. Just as effective as a direct hit, IMO. Asking them to name only an odd card is very weak, I think. It's not like doing an equivoque with the colors.
glowball
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After constructing LAZY-B2 which has a descending red suit I got to thinking: could we also incorporate the black cards with one of those suits being descending and the other black suit being ascending and then add a few instructions to the B2 algorithm: after multiply by 4 add "If spades subtract 2, if clubs leave the number alone". And of course make the appropriate adjustments to the number to card calculation.

Then another thought hit me was that the Bicycle decks new deck order comes with two descending suits ie: diamonds, and spades. So why not (starting with Bicycle ndo) just do two perfect faros and you're ready to go?

Note that in Bicycle ndo since diamonds are the descending red suit my B2 type calculations would have to change the diamonds for the hearts.

The first few cards of this stack that I will call here the Two Tut stack (faro/pharaoh couldn't resist the pun):

After first faro:
AH
KD
2H
QD
...
AC
KS
2C
QS
...

After second faro:
AH
AC
KD
KS
2H
2C
QD
QS
...

Well this deck could not be shown in a spread and doing a face up count would not be wise, but you could do a very quick sloppy table spread for a busy waiter or a quick dribble display and then when the time came to do the count just have them (or you) do a down under count so as not to expose the faces and keep the stack intact and then after the target card is turned face up then show the card just before and just after to be different.

I feel sure that this stack has been done and published somewhere else but it is so obvious it should be public domain in my opinion.

I doubt if we will use this Two Tut stack because of its poor display characteristics, but it is interesting and simple and calculates all 52 cards but does require the subtraction from 14 for two of the suits.
glowball
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Well the Two Tut stack could be made to look a little better by making a couple of preliminary cuts so that before the first faro:

One half of the deck has hearts (ascending) with spades (descending).

The second half would have clubs (ascending) and diamonds (descending).

Then do the first faro.

This will create like value pairs after the first faro but this is kind of a good thing because now the second pharaoh will intersperse the kings between the aces and queens between the two's etc. and this makes for a little bit better looking spread.

Perhaps the easiest way to make the initial cuts to prepare for the faros: cut the hearts off of the top of the deck onto the table face up and then cut the spades off of the bottom face up on top of the face-up hearts. Now the two halves are ready to have the first faro (both halves face down of course).

Then of course the algorithms would have to be adjusted/changed.
glowball
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Claudio,
I like your joker in the card box idea.
Instead of a joker how about just leaving the black card that was in position 52 secretly in the card box and then just work with the 51 card deck.

Then when doing number to card If they say an even number then the magician or shill says the name of the red card that's one beyond then do like you said ie put all the cards into the card box so the secret black card is on top of the deck and hand the deck which is inside the case to the spectator but when they take all 52 cards out they now have a legitimate card being dealt face up (Instead of a suspicious joker) as the first card.
glowball
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There is one problem with my above suggestion and that is if doing card to number (or number to card) if the target happened to be the card in position 51 then when the count gets to 51 there is no card 52 and this would look a little strange in the spectator's eyes.

Therefore we should probably just put a joker in position 52 and this would work well but if the joker is flashed on the bottom that might look a little strange.

Maybe we should just put any duplicate black card at position 52. No one's going to remember that there was say a five of clubs at position 20 and also a five of clubs at position 52.

Either way (a joker at position 52 or duplicate black card at position 52) with a normal black card secretly in the card box should work well.
glowball
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I have decided to have the ace of clubs secretly in the top of the card box with a tiny bit of glue holding the back of the card to the flap side of the box. The ace of clubs has the most white space of any of the black cards to further protect against any viewing angles.

I have decided against utilizing the blue sticker to hold the secret card in the box because it is much easier for the spectator to bend back the flap and gain a better grip on the entire deck including the "secret card". I don't think they'll even realize what's going on with the stuck card and they'll just forcefully pull it out with the deck (or I can just do the dirty work myself).

I have also decided to have a duplicate 5 of clubs in position 52 followed by two identical jokers. The two jokers are just so I can do the double transposition with this deck but when doing acaan Lazy-B1 or Lazy-B2 I will just remove the two jokers and set them aside.
Claudio
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Alternatively, forget about card case and duplicates.

Have one joker on bottom of deck when you start with “card to number” (which would cater for specs trying to beat you by naming the joker) then cut the joker to top of deck when you follow with “number to card”. In the latter scenario, once the number’s been called out, if the number is even, say to the stooge (for the benefit of your spec): “Name any card in the deck, but not a joker…” that you turnover and remove from the deck.

If the spec called an odd number, either say nothing (my preferred option) or say: “Name any card in the deck, even the joker if you like…” So, when they start dealing and the joker is seen as the first card, there’ll be nothing suspicious.

PS: It’s possible that I’ve inverted the use of odd/even, but you get the idea.
glowball
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How about this: no Jokers, no extra card, just remove the 52nd card entirely (put it in your pocket, throw it away, burn it whatever), it is a black card and not needed. Why is this 51 card Lazy-B2 deck possibly better?

Because if the target card is one of the last two or three red cards then: magician says "to save time we will just count backward from the bottom of the deck".

If the stated position is an even number then the magician just flips the deck face up and can hand the deck to the spectator to count backwards (52, 51, 50, 49 etc) the spectators will assume the bottom card is at position 52.

If the stated position is an odd number then the magician holds the deck face down and counts backwards sliding cards out from the bottom of the deck as he counts (52, 51, 50, 49 etc) and does a glide on the target card one time to make it arrive at the target position.

If the stated position is at an even number and it is not near the bottom, then the magician does as Claudio suggested: just do a pinky pull down of the bottom card (It will be a red card but it makes no difference what that card is) and double undercuts it to the top thus making all the other red cards at even number positions.

The confederate/shill is aware of all these situations and knows the appropriate formulas so can say the appropriate number (and or appropriate card).
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Currently this is my 52 card complete Lazy-B2 stack including all the black cards that I'm using as fillers:

KD, 3S, KH, JC, AD, 7C, QH, KC, 2D, 8S, JH, 5S, 3D, 6C, 10H, KS, 4D, 2S, 9H, 6S, 5D, 10C, 8H, QC, 6D, 3C, 7H, AC, 7D, 9C, 6H, 10S, 8D, 4C, 5H, JS, 9D, 7S, 4H, 2C, 10D, 4S, 3H, AS, JD, 9S, 2H, QS, QD, 8C, AH, 5C

I will eliminate the 5C (maybe have it lightly glued inside the card case just to get it out of the way but have it available if I later want to do full deck tricks).
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There are a few minor things that I do not like about my Lazy-B2 stack:
1. I don't like the two red kings at the very top because they will be seen when counting the cards face up every time (may raise eyebrows).
2. in one of the formulas I'm doing an extra "add one to the quotient" calculation that I think I can eliminate.
3. If I eliminate that "add one to the quotient" by using 13 instead of 14 then doing "card to number" still uses 14 and I would have 13 in the "number to card" calculation. I don't like that, and prefer the same number 13 in both places. I think I can do that by adjusting the formulas even though the B3 deck is almost the same as the B2 deck.
4. I like to get rid of the situation with the king of diamonds that calculates 53 and wraps to position 1.
5. I'm going to have a new deck called Lazy-B3 where I have moved a few cards to make the calculations even simpler.

Lazy-B3 physical stack:
KH, 3S, AD, 7C, QH, KC, 2D, 8S, JH, 5S, 3D, 6C, 10H, KS, 4D, 2S, 9H, 6S, 5D, 10C, 8H, QC, 6D, 3C, 7H, AC, 7D, 9C, 6H, 10S, 8D, 4C, 5H, JS, 9D, 7S, 4H, 2C, 10D, 4S, 3H, AS, JD, 9S, 2H, QS, QD, 8C, AH, JC, KD, 5C but I will completely remove the last card 5C.

The new formulas for this Lazy-B3 version are below (notice that the hearts and diamonds have now switched mostly what they do in the formulas):

Lazy-B3:
Card to number:
Magician says "imagine a deck of cards, do you want me to pull out the red cards or the black cards"? Regardless of their answer you proceed with the red cards asking which suit and then asking whether I cards are low cards and then asking them to name the specific card.

The card is named by the spectator therefore the below calculations are done by the shill to give the position of that card:

1. If hearts:
a. subtract card value from 13.
b. multiply the value by 4
c. then for hearts normally add 1 (but If you are going to count from the face up bottom of the deck then add 2 instead of adding 1).

2. If Diamonds multiply the value by 4 then subtract 1 (but If counting from the face up bottom of the deck then don't add or subtract anything when Diamonds, just multiply the value by 4).

Kind of weird how the formulas work out even though it's a 51 card deck and can be dealt face down from the top as normal or dealt from the bottom face up starting by saying "52"then "51" then "50" etc. (Even though as you are saying "52" etc it is really the 51st card etc, but they don't know that).

Lazy-B3:
Noted that when doing "Number to card" (The resulting quotient will be the card value and the resulting remainder will indicate the suit):
Magician says "name any number from one to 52".

If an even position number is said then the shill mentally subtracts 1 from it giving an odd position number. That way the below mental calculation will always be done on an odd number but the physical count of the cards maybe an even number or an odd number counted depending on what the spectator said.

Lazy-B3:
Calculation for "number to card":
Do the below on the odd number:
a. divide it by 4 giving a quotient and remainder.

b. If remainder is 1 (Hearts) then subtract quotient from 13 giving card value (final answer).

c. If reminder is 3 (Diamonds) ADD 1 TO THE QUOTIENT giving the card value (final answer).

Surprisingly the above formula works whether dealing from a normal face-down deck or from the bottom of the deck face-up!
-----------
glowball
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The one adjustment is that if an ODD NUMBER is said by the spectator AND it's a VERY HIGH NUMBER such as 49 the magician will need to deal from the bottom of the face down deck while holding the deck in preparation for the glide. When the magician is counting down and is about to verbally say the number that is one higher than the target number he glides that card back (because it is the target card) and pulls out the next card and then after that he pulls the glided card out and shows it because it is the target card.

Note the bottom card of the stack is the King of Diamonds (the five of clubs was removed before performance and it is not in the deck).

Example ODD NUMBER is said AND it's a VERY HIGH NUMBER:
Spectator says 47 (the shill calculates the QD and casually says "oh, Queen of Diamonds".
The magician holds deck face down in glide position and pulls out the King of Diamonds and says "52", then pulls out the Jack of Clubs and says "51", then pulls out the Ace of Hearts and says"50", then pulls out the Eight of Clubs and says "49", then glides back the Queen of Diamonds (because he is ready to say the number that's one greater than the odd target number) and pulls out the Queen of Spades instead and says "48", then pulls out the glided back card (the Queen of Diamonds in this case) and says "47" as he turns it face up.
glowball
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I believe my Lazy-B4 deck and formulas are a simpler solution to the even number problem.

https://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopi......orum=205

See the above link.
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