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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Can the pass be replaced effectively by a subtlety? I'm thinking of *packet* tricks, explained in one case by Tamariz and in another by Colombini, in which the magician splits a a four card packet into one pair each in the left and right hands, introduces a time delay and gestures with the two pairs, keeping the original bottom pair a bit higher than the original top, and then reassembles the packet with the pairs reversed.
Would something similar fly with a full deck? Bob |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Sure, there are such subtleties that can be done with a full pack. One which comes immediately to mind is in Jon Racherbaumer's book 'Card Finesse'. It is called the "Marlo-Thompson Bluff Pass" and is early on in the book.
I think that is the sort of thing you are talking about. It is a really, really good move if you pay strict attention to details and act casually. Acting helps to sell it.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Tortuga,
Many thanks for all the help you've been giving me. I have the book and will look up the move you mention. You may have guessed that I'm hoping to use such a move in my variation on Faulty Followers, as I described in another thread. Bob |
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2986 Posts |
Reverse Spread technology can be used to secretly cut the deck. Vic Trabucco has a very nice control called "Taking Control." It's found in Steve Beam's Semi-Automatic series volume 11.
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Mike. That sounds great. Sadly, I have only three of the Beam books, and none of their volume numbers equal 11. I'll look out for an inexpensive used copy of the book.
Bob |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
It's going to depend on the subtlety.
The pass is meant to have no external reality -- ie: assuming you have no handling tells, it looks like you did nothing with the cards. If your subtlety looks like you're doing something with the cards, then it may still be deceptive, but it won't really be a proper substitute for the pass.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Just to clarify: I'm holding the deck face-down, and the second card from the top, unknown to the audience, is face-up. My goal is to secretly position the face-up card near the center of the deck. So, if I have my terminology right, I'm controlling a card, but to the center not the top.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I see what you're saying, Burnaby Kid. But I have to be uncharacteristically (for me) pragmatic here. Based on how long it's taken me to learn sleights easier than the pass, I suspect I'll be a Grave Man before I have a pass that's more convincing than a first-rate pass-like subtlety.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Burnaby Kid is right and for folks like myself, the pass would be an option. I like Mike Powers's suggestion, but as you don't have the resource you can't follow up on it. I'll check to see if similar handlings are printed elsewhere. But first, can you explain why cutting the cards is objectionable? Maybe if we have the full context it will make sense.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Kind of you, Tortuga, to look into similar handlings. I got a PM with a really good solution, so don't spend too much time looking. I hate to turn down your offer altogether, because I might learn something interesting.
BTW, I'd *like* to learn the pass, or at least try, but right now I'm brimming with tricks that I want to perfect, and I don't want to wait till the hypothetical time when I might have a good pass to polish them this particular trick. I need the cut for a variation I have in mind of Vernon's Variant, Faulty Followers, etc. Magician says he has a new joker that he'd like to use in his magic, but jokers are notoriously mischievous, and he wants to make sure this one isn't *too* mischievous -- enough to ruin his magic. The joker turns face up in the spectator's hands but not the magician's. Then the packets are exchanged and the joker turns face up in the magician's hands, not the spectators. Magician decides the joker *is* too m., and makes it go away by placing it on the deck and doing an Erdnase change. Then he ribbon-spreads the deck and there's the joker again, face up in the middle of the deck. Without the cut, the joker would be at the edge of the spread; the end of the trick would have less impact than if the joker were in the center, and its placement might confirm some spectators' suspicions that the color change had left the joker underneath the new top card of the deck. With the cut, and with the joker centralized, I hope the ending would be bewildering to audience. Bob |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Okay, here's a solution that I think is do-able for you:
The premise is that after the adorable joker's cheeky doings, you are now going to show that it is not on the bottom, middle or top. 1) "Where did it go?" Holding the pack face down in the left hand (with joker face up in position #2) bring your right hand over the deck and swing cut half the deck into the thumb crotch of your left hand. Take the lower half in your right hand and turn over both hands so that the cards are now face up and point with your left forefinger at the card on the face of the right-hand packet. "It's not here." 2) Turn both hands face down and place the right hand packet on top of the left hand packet. With your palm down right hand pick up the whole deck and turn it face up in the right hand. Point to the face card with the left forefinger. "Not here." 3) Turn the deck face down into the left hand. Turn the top card face up. "Not here either." 4) Spread the deck in your hands or on the table (preferable) and reveal the face up joker in the middle of the pack. "There it is!" Once you get the sequence down you want the moves to flow into each other, not too fast or slow. It should pretty much do what you asked for.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts |
Quote:
On May 18, 2022, Bob G wrote: Hi Bob, If you need a context to cut the deck, then here are 3 sleights for 3 characteristics, and they are all super-doable.
Whether or not you want to go with the Triumphesque finale, it's up to you... |
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Gennovense Regular user 113 Posts |
Tommy Tucker Pass
"Backstage" Pass to the top, this is a similar handling to Greg Wilson control but to the top. I believe it's in Tools of Our Trade. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Landmark,
Wow, I really like this -- clever and simple. I do have one question: when I first followed your directions, I was confused, during the first two displays, as to which card was supposedly the middle, and which the bottom. So I'm wondering: Suppose, instead of saying "Not here" three times, would it work to say, "Not in the middle...not on the bottom...not on the top"? To my way of thinking, that would add clarity to the effect. But maybe it also reveals what's really happening?? Thanks, Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Gennovense,
Thanks for your post. I don't have Tools of our Trade, so I'm curious why you suggested this particular move -- a pass, I assume. Is it easier than other passes? Bob |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On May 18, 2022, Bob G wrote: I had the same thought Bob, but then I thought later that it brought too much attention to the locations, which are, frankly, discrepant. Better to let it be inferred than said explicitly, I think.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Yes, landmark, now that I think about it, the locations *have* to be discrepant. I'm going to think about this issue as I practice, and see whether I think the discrepancies are obvious enough that I shouldn't refer to the seeming locations of the cards. The first couple of times I tried your move, I was only thinking about how to do it right, not whether specs would notice that something was amiss.
By the way, every time I see one of your messages I'm reminded that I'm curious about the meaning of Inner Circle within a triangle. As a mathematician, I imagine a circle inscribed in a triangle. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Sam,
You're a fountain of interesting ideas! I ran into some dead-ends on the three that you listed in your latest post: 1. Double undercut below the 2nd card (face-up Joker), 2. Tenkai Optical Revolve, 3. Racherbaumer/Trost Flip-Flop move. For 1: Wouldn't it be obvious to the audience that I was changing the position of *something*? For 2: I have the ebook of Tarbell from Lybrary. I couldn't find this move, though it sounded like it might be a good solution based on the description in conjuringarchive. I searched for revolve, optical, and tenkai in the document and found nothing. The book, in this version at least, doesn't have traditional page numbers; rather, things like 7-25, meaning page 25 of lesson 7. If your copy is numbered in the same way, could you send me the page number? For 3: Anything with the names Racherbaumer, Trost, and Flip-Flop has got to be good. Sadly, I don't have this book. Thanks as always, Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
...On the other hand, conjuring archive lists related moves in two books that I do have: Kabbala, and The Card Magic of Nick Trost. The game's afoot!
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Also, Sam, I like the little "Joker/Jester" icon you chose. That's exactly the way I think about jokers.
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