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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » My first attempt at Palming (Lazy Man's Card to Pocket) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Nikodemus
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I thought some of you might be interested/amused to hear about my first attempts at Palming.
I would describe myself as an intermediate level hobbyist. I have practiced palming on my own many times, but doing it for real seemed pretty daunting. Recently I stumbled on the Lazy Man's Card To Pocket, so decided to give it a go...

Attempt 1 -
Me - what number did you think of?
Spec - three.
Me [dealing to the 3rd card] And what was your card?
Spec - the 3 of Diamonds.
Me - But it's not there. And it's not the card before... or the card after... In fact here it is in my pocket.
[Dramatically reveals card - which turns out NOT to be the 3D]
Me - Huh??? Where is it????
Spec - Errr, I think it was the 8th card?

Lesson learned - spectators sometimes can't follow the most basic of instructions. When she said the position was 3 AND the card was a 3, the alarm bells should have gone off in my head.
The good news - I don't think she spotted the Top Palm at all.

Attempt 2 -
Me - look, your card isn't there.
Spec - I know, it's hidden under your hand.
Me - sh*t!

Lesson learnt - Don't try to "prep" the sleight. This just telegraphs it. Wait for the right moment, then go for it.

Attempt 3 -
Me - Look, it's not here... or here... or here. In fact it's here in my pocket where it's been all the time.
Spec - WTF!!! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! HOW DID YOU DO THAT???

Lesson learnt - it's great when it works! I love magic!
landmark
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Congratulations!
"Wait for the right moment"--you can build that moment into the plot. Say the number is three. You turn over the first two cards first up, then deal the third card face down. Tell them, "Turn it over"--as they do, you can do the palm.
Nikodemus
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Thanks Landmark!
Tortuga
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Good points made. Never be in a hurry. Do the palm at the right time. And by the way, it needn't be a top palm either. Copping, to me, is much more surefire and harder for them to detect. To each his/her own. I do use the top palm, but not for card to pocket. You could feign an attempt to find their card and fail, hand them the pack saying, "here, could you please find it". And of course they cannot, it is in your control.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
ejohn
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Great advice! Appreciate your candor, Nikodemus.
Claudio
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Your second attempt gave me a hearty laugh 😊

If I’m not mistaken Lazy Man’s Card To Pocket was specifically designed to avoid palming, so that might explain why you got busted, more often than not while palming the selected card, as the timing is all wrong.

There are some old classic card-to-pocket effects which have misdirection built-in.
Nikodemus
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Thanks Claudio,
The first attempt is the one that makes me laugh!


I learnt LMCTP from a YT tutorial. I believe the creator was C O Williams. I don't know the original source, but the description I saw online said it had misdirection built in, and was a good way to practice palming because of the misdirection.

Here is a description of the effect (I won't reveal the method) -

1. Spectator can shuffle the deck.
2. In the version I saw, the spectator cut the deck into two halves, but I don't think this is strictly necessary.
3. A random card is selected (without revealing the face), and placed in the magician's pocket. This can be selected by the spectator.
4. The spectator thinks of a number (n) between say 1-10
5. The magician shows 10 cards one-by-one. The spectator remembers the card at their chosen number.
6. Spectator tells the magician what number they thought of.
7. Magician deals to the nth card
8. Spectator turns over the card - it is not theirs.
9. Spectator turns over previous & next cards. [I added this bit, for more dramatic effect, and to eliminate the obvious possibility of a miscount]
10. Magician removes a card from his pocket - it is the spectator's thought of card.

There is definitely palming in this version.

I have come across something called Lazy Man's Card to Wallet. This does not require any palming. And the card could just as easily be in a pocket as a wallet. That required a gaff card.
Also I can imagine doing it with a dup and a force (and no palming).
But the above version is FASDIU, which I think is nice.
Claudio
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Thanks, Nikodemus, for the description of the trick you performed.

There’s a trick in Expert Card Technique, pg. 235 in my copy, called Lazy Man’s Card To Pocket originated by Jack McMillen and based of course on the original C. O. William’s Card To Pocket. Of course, there might be other tricks carrying the same name.

In LMCTP, there’s no palming. It’s really easy to perform (though quite bold) and fooling.

The description you gave is based on the original William’s effect but seems to clutter it with spurious actions. There’s an easy version (with palming) in the self-working section of the ECT book: Tricky Quickie. That’s the one I started with (ages ago); and if you’re interested in reading it, you can easily simplify the handling.

It’s a good idea to have different methods available in your toolkit should you want to repeat the trick.
RoyalRd
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Great lessons learned! Personally, I prefer a side steal to palm motion that lets me keep a card at a held break or just on the bottom of the deck. Good luck and keep at it!
Nikodemus
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Thank you Claudio for clarifying several different versions of Card To Pocket.
I was misled by erroneous crediting on the YouTube page where I found the trick above. He said LMCTP was by CO Williams, but ECT says it is by Jack McMillen.
The "lazy" version is very clever if you want to avoid palming. Also it seems to me you could decide at the last moment whether to do the final revelation with palming or using McMillen's solution.

I now believe the trick I did was actually based on Psychological Impossibility in Tarbel. There is a discussion here -
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......&forum=2

The version I saw had the deck divided into two distinct piles. The spectator remembered a card from one pile, but the card placed in the magician's pocket came from the other pile. So the effect was one of physical impossibility rather than mentalism. The way I chose to present it was that I hypnotised the spectator to believe they saw a card they could not possibly have seen. Funnily enough, I found the Williams trick in Encyclopaedia of Card Tricks - followed by an alternative presentation by SH Wimbrough that has exactly the same hypnosis theme.
Nikodemus
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PS
I just looked again at Jack McMillen's LMCTP (P 313 in my copy of ECT).
The description of how to remove the card in steps 1-2 seemed very unclear. Eventually I figured out the deck needs to be held horizontally - not vertically as described. [if vertical there is no "inner" end - there would be top & bottom ends.] Also the deck needs to be FU as you riffle through, so when you remove the "top" card it is actually on the bottom.
Claudio
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I understood the ECT description differently from you. If you hold the deck in a dealing grip and rotate your wrist so that the deck is in position for an overhand shuffle (with faces to the left), then “vertical” and “inner end” make sense, as well as the riffling action.

After reading the Tarbell's description (thanks for digging out the reference) I came up with a fun version in which you never know the spectator's number but nevertheless manage to retrieve the spec's card from your pocket. The trade-off is that there's slightly more processing. If you're interested I can PM you the handling.
Claudio
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Funny, I read again the ECT description of LMCTP (my previous description relied on the handling I learnt a long time ago) and it seems to me that the natural handling is to simply hold the deck in dealing grip and slightly raise the inner end (by about 45 deg.) to riffle it and pretend to be looking for a card.

I think multiple interpretations are not uncommon with ECT which at times is rather vague.
Francois Lagrange
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Thanks Claudio. Your idea of using A.P. with the McMillen trick is great and enhances its impact. Thanks again.
Protect me from my friends, I'll deal with my enemies.
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2022, Nikodemus wrote:
Thanks Claudio,
The first attempt is the one that makes me laugh!


I learnt LMCTP from a YT tutorial. I believe the creator was C O Williams. I don't know the original source, but the description I saw online said it had misdirection built in, and was a good way to practice palming because of the misdirection.

Here is a description of the effect (I won't reveal the method) -

1. Spectator can shuffle the deck.
2. In the version I saw, the spectator cut the deck into two halves, but I don't think this is strictly necessary.
3. A random card is selected (without revealing the face), and placed in the magician's pocket. This can be selected by the spectator.
4. The spectator thinks of a number (n) between say 1-10
5. The magician shows 10 cards one-by-one. The spectator remembers the card at their chosen number.
6. Spectator tells the magician what number they thought of.
7. Magician deals to the nth card
8. Spectator turns over the card - it is not theirs.
9. Spectator turns over previous & next cards. [I added this bit, for more dramatic effect, and to eliminate the obvious possibility of a miscount]
10. Magician removes a card from his pocket - it is the spectator's thought of card.

There is definitely palming in this version.

I have come across something called Lazy Man's Card to Wallet. This does not require any palming. And the card could just as easily be in a pocket as a wallet. That required a gaff card.
Also I can imagine doing it with a dup and a force (and no palming).
But the above version is FASDIU, which I think is nice.


I think I’ve seen that video, and actually it is very well taught (with a little risqué comedy to it).😁 And the little bit of palming to it is completely covered by strong, built in misdirection.

Take it from a decent-at-best coin guy like myself, anyone should be able to do it with but a little practice with a basic palm. It’s a fine trick, easy to do and a lot of fun. 😉
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Nikodemus
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Quote:
On Jun 7, 2022, Claudio wrote:
Funny, I read again the ECT description of LMCTP (my previous description relied on the handling I learnt a long time ago) and it seems to me that the natural handling is to simply hold the deck in dealing grip and slightly raise the inner end (by about 45 deg.) to riffle it and pretend to be looking for a card.

I think multiple interpretations are not uncommon with ECT which at times is rather vague.


The description in ECT is indeed ambiguous!
Whatever the authors meant, I am rather pleased with the interpretation I came up with. I assume you mean above that the decay would be held face DOWN in dealers grip? For me this makes it impossible to secretly take the top card.
It seems reasonable to me to turn the deck face UP to riffle through for a card. Then insert your fingers apparently to remove one, but instead out-jog the "top" card (now on the bottom - not the face) with your thumb. Then you can legitimately turn the deck towards you to hide the face as you remove your selection.

Re PM - yes please!
Claudio
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Yes, in the last handling I described, you'd have to lift the outer end by about 45 degrees to remove the top card - I left that out. Indeed, if your handling works for you, there's no reason to change it.

PM sent.
Claudio
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@Francois: Glad you liked it.
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2022, Nikodemus wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2022, Claudio wrote:
Funny, I read again the ECT description of LMCTP (my previous description relied on the handling I learnt a long time ago) and it seems to me that the natural handling is to simply hold the deck in dealing grip and slightly raise the inner end (by about 45 deg.) to riffle it and pretend to be looking for a card.

I think multiple interpretations are not uncommon with ECT which at times is rather vague.


The description in ECT is indeed ambiguous!
Whatever the authors meant, I am rather pleased with the interpretation I came up with. I assume you mean above that the decay would be held face DOWN in dealers grip? For me this makes it impossible to secretly take the top card.
It seems reasonable to me to turn the deck face UP to riffle through for a card. Then insert your fingers apparently to remove one, but instead out-jog the "top" card (now on the bottom - not the face) with your thumb. Then you can legitimately turn the deck towards you to hide the face as you remove your selection.

Re PM - yes please!


“Ambiguous” is right. I remember a lot of those old tricks described in books were incorrect as to movements, etc. Until you better understand it, you think you’re just not getting it or can’t do it. 😁 These instructions used to drive me crazy back in the day. But I can see how difficult it can be to always describe the right actions when you’re writing this stuff down. I’ve made a few mistakes myself, truth be told. 😁

Anyway, it is a good trick, and I would recommend the video mentioned here above as a good way to completely understand and do it. 😊👍🏽
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
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