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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Magic Review - Spidey Penguin Live Lecture (88 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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EvojKam
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They are not treating magic as a business, milking every single dollar selling variation of a similar thing or worse hurting other magic creator.
Instead they have true passion of the mentalism craft.
phedonbilek
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Quote:
On Aug 13, 2022, ddyment wrote:
Chaz93 wrote:
Quote:
... I haven't seen Spidey expose anything on his youtube channel that he hasn't created.

Spidey has definitely exposed the works of others, without permission. If Chaz93 hasn't seen this, it's because he hasn't been looking (which might have been a good idea prior to suggesting that another is misrepresenting something).

But even if the ideas had been his (and they demonstrably aren't), what he does still constitutes exposure. Now different people respond to such activity in different ways, but I personally feel that it shows disdain for mentalism, and I do not support those who do so, no matter how clever their ideas might be. I have too much respect for my art.



I read this topic, and hesitated to write this. But I think I need to address this subject, although I admit ignoring even who Spidey is, let alone anything about his lecture. I'm quite ignorant, and I chose my word carefully, when it comes to other creators' material, although many of my own creations have been inspired by what others created before me. And that's why I felt the need to say something when I read Doug's quite... vehement post. I do believe that none of us is safe from being accused of using others' ideas without their permission. I'm certain I did, at some point. Being aware of my ignorance in this field, I asked the most knowledgeable people I know (such as Mark Chandaue, who did an impressive job) to check Orion, and give credit where it's due. Needless to say, hadn't I done that, I'd have omitted 90% of the credits that were given in this project. But I can say here that everyone, including Doug, is guilty to some extent on that charge, which is: performing or teaching something that's borrowed or partially borrowed, without having given proper credit or been given the permission to do so.

My goal with this little post is just to recommend measure and humility. I feel uncomfortable when I see fingers pointed like that, independently on whether Spidey is right or not in this case. Whoever you are, first ask yourself, before casting your stone, whether you're without sin. I, for one, am not.

Are you...?


Have all a nice day/evening.


Much love, always


Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
joemcdull
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Quote:
Mastermindreader Mar 18, 2013 01:38 am

Don't steal or expose methods in public.

Bob Cassidy

I hope even Bob Cassidy is dead, his mentality, dedication, passion to mentalism live forever.
Surely Doug never expose methods in public. And I doubt if Phedon be happy if someone teach Proteus the prop-less drawing dupe on YouTube.
ddyment
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Phedonbilek is chastising me over a claim that I never expressed. Nor was I making reference to Spidey's lecure, which I have not even seen (and would not purchase in any case).

I never denigrated anyone for "using others' ideas without their permission." I agree with Phedon that it's next to impossible to avoid this entirely, for a variety of reasons (although the more ethical of us do the best we can to discover and seek permission for using the creations of others).

What I did do was (in rebuttal to the claim of Chaz93) observe that Spidey is demonstrably guilty, on multiple occasions, of exposing the ideas of others, without permission. I then went on describe what I think of any exposure, whether it's of your own secrets or those of others (with or without their permission).

Exposure is deleterious to the mystery entertainment arts, and those guilty of it should be castigated, not celebrated.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
phedonbilek
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2022, joemcdull wrote:
... I doubt if Phedon be happy if someone teach Proteus the prop-less drawing dupe on YouTube.


Joe, my friend,

If all you understood from my lengthy tirade is the above, that is to say: saying it's 'OK' to teach others' material on... YouTube (!), then my choice of words must have been very poor, at best. And I apologize for that. English being my third language, at least I can cling to that (easy) excuse.

You know, let me clarify a bit and explain the reason why I posted the above. First, let me express my utmost respect for Doug Dyment and his contribution to our field. Doug, your latest book is nothing short of amazing, and its unanimous, indisputable (and undisputed!) success is proof, if it was ever needed. And in no way, would I ever chastise you. But even I, detected an omission in your book, one that surprised me. Don't get me wrong, I'd have never noticed anything, it's just that this particular effect is one of the very few that made a magic square appealing to me (whoever knows my taste, knows that they are NOT my cup of tea), and one that I have been knowing for quite some time, way before Calculated Thoughts. I won't give details, as this is not the point of my intervention. But that routine is brilliant.

Now, did I say anything? Of course not. Besides, I'm sure you'll find ten times more omissions in Orion. I plead guilty on that charge. But the reason I said that we should all remain humble -and this should apply to the giants in our field as well- is that you put the ones exposing others' material and the ones teaching it in the same bag. Proof is our friend Joe's reply, above, asking whether I'd be happy if someone exposed Proteus on YouTube (!!). I wasn't apparently subtle enough to convey the fact that I believe it's time we should stop designating targets that easily, pointing fingers, especially when we create and eventually, knowingly or not, find ourselves guilty of using/teaching other creators' methods. Because the day it backfires on us, I trust the internet and the happy lynchers out there to remember exactly what we said or wrote. And to break that finger we once pointed.

I hope I was clearer this time. If not, well... Just lynch Spidey.

Tallyho!


Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
EvojKam
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I think Phedon may be focus on the wrong issue due to the length thread
That "Teaching Other's Material" is just a secondary issue when " Expose Magic Secret on Youtube" is the main issue
the secondary issue is bought up by Chaz93 saying that "It Is OK to Expose magic you create on YouTube "
Phedon seems to focus on "Many people may possibly teaching some other's material without acknowledging it" It is a logical fallacy called straw man (hope it may not sound rude to point this out)

Let me make it simple and clear, the question need to be answer is:
1. Is it ok to Expose magic OTHER create on YouTube
2. Is it ok to Expose magic YOU create on YouTube
3. Is it wrong to chastising, pointing fingers, lynching people who Expose magic on Youtube

My answer on the first 1 and 2 are both NOT OK, and Phedon may clarify 1 and 2 a little bit, since the entire paragraph are not focus on ONLINE MAGIC EXPOSURE.
and on three, Yes, we are chastising the one doing the same thing Val Valentino aka Masked Magician had done in the past, and I want to know why is it ok to allow Val Valentino or anyone exposing magic publicly without chastising
ddyment
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In an ongoing attempt to clear up some confusion on Phedon's (and perhaps others') part ...

Phedon posted:
Quote:
... I felt the need to say something when I read Doug's quite... vehement post. I do believe that none of us is safe from being accused of using others' ideas without their permission.


Again, I censured nobody for "using others' ideas without permission" (which, I agree with Phedon, is often impossible to avoid). So I am unsure of why I am being used as an example in Phedon's comments about this. I don't mind being chastised when it is appropriate, but in this case I don't even see why it's relevant.

My vehemence was directed against conscious exposure, nothing else. And I find it concerning that Phedon is taking me to task for this.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
SethHoward
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Hi Guys

Brett Barry here, creator of the SVENPAD(R) line of products. The name is a registered worldwide TRADEMARK, and sven pad is not a generic name - just to clarify.

I watched the UnbiasedMagicReview video today and read some of the comments here. Fun times on the Café!

Yeah, I guess I'm "biased" since I am the manufacturer of these popular utility props.

But I know a few things having made more than 10,700 comments here at the Magic Café going back near 2+ decades compared to Dr. UnbiasedMagic who arrived in 2017 and has a meager 270 posts here and trying mightily to build his YouTube audience.


How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads?

Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion.

If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy.
UnbiasedMagicReviews
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Quote:
On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Hi Guys

Brett Barry here, creator of the SVENPAD(R) line of products. The name is a registered worldwide TRADEMARK, and sven pad is not a generic name - just to clarify.

I watched the UnbiasedMagicReview video today and read some of the comments here. Fun times on the Café!

Yeah, I guess I'm "biased" since I am the manufacturer of these popular utility props.

But I know a few things having made more than 10,700 comments here at the Magic Café going back near 2+ decades compared to Dr. UnbiasedMagic who arrived in 2017 and has a meager 270 posts here and trying mightily to build his YouTube audience.


How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads?

Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion.

If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy.



It's all good but I do appreciate the support.

I have gotten a HUGE amount of hate mail from magicians whenever I put out a review that is not GLOWINGLY positive. How sad is that? You can't even give an honest opinion without being threatened and attacked. They get upset when I tell people to look at other older products that are just as good as the newest shiny toy that is being advertised.

You are completely right. A review is just someone's opinion. People don't have to listen to them. People can make up their own minds after checking out what I recommend and watching other reviews.

The issue that Brett Barry has is that he has a direct stake in this lecture as it is promoting his product. His attempt to discredit me is petty and just reflects how weak his argument is especially when people watch my reviews and see live performances of my own (something very few magic review channels include).

People can see that I have experience performing the products I review, and I have no ulterior motives like the paid promotional review channels out there.

We aren't always going to agree but trying to suppress someone's opinion because you don't like it is only going to do the opposite.
YouTube & Instagram - UnbiasedMagicReviews
I buy/review magic to help you make better decisions
Unbiased The Definitive ACAAN -The BEST Ungaffed ACAAN - https://youtu.be/YtAAETDIouA
joemcdull
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Quote:
On Aug 15, 2022, phedonbilek wrote:
If all you understood from my lengthy tirade is the above, that is to say: saying it's 'OK' to teach others' material on... YouTube (!), then my choice of words must have been very poor, at best. And I apologize for that.


It is not your choice of word is wrong, it is your understanding of the ENTIRE TOPIC wrong. Using others' ideas without permission is never the thing we are blaming, It is TEACHING MAGIC ON PUBLIC YouTube CHANNEL that we blame. And no one is blaming Doug about it except you.

Your point is Don't Blame / Pointing Finger to other when we are bearing the sin ourselves and I Get it. Let rewind back to the original discussion, it was about whether the lecture content is worth $40 or not. Until The Sven Pad® guy came in and doing personal attack to the reviewer in order to protect his collusion parter and do a shameless self promotion. And that's when I point out it is Sven Pad® guy and Spidey who bear the most sin. Seth Howard above said it spot on, we are done with these toxic people who try to suppress negative voice for personal financial gain. And what Spidey had done is even more disturbing and sinful, revealing magic, mentalism secret on the public YouTube channel for personal benefit.

DON'T DEFLECT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM PROBLEM: It is wrong to reveal magic secret on public YouTube channel.
timtam
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A look through reviews on UNBIASEDMAGICREVIEWS indicates the reviewer has a wide knowledge of what magic is out there and he has a very scientific analytical mind. I don’t personally agree with his rating on the Spidey lecture, but his reviews are much more detailed and thoughtful than most I read, and he usually gives good alternative approaches when he thinks a product is weak. Most reviewers aren’t so brave, or maybe don’t want to suggest better versions to consider.
magicthree
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Unbiasedmagicreviews is without question the best review channel out there. Nobody is going to agree with everything he says in his reviews but he is giving his honest opinion of what HE THINKS about the product. If you don't agree, that's fine. State why you disagree with him but don't put him down because he has a different opinion than you.

His review channel is helping many magicians make their decision whether to buy or not to buy. I know I have bought many of the tricks he recommends and for that I say, "Thank you".
252life
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Quote:
On Aug 1, 2022, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote:
Thanks for the feedback guys. I realize that continuing to argue will get nowhere. I could sit here and argue all day with Mr. Burch as he has missed several points starting with the match effect from the jinx but its not even worth my time! I'm glad that you enjoyed the lecture and hopefully my review will help those people who are wondering about whether or not to purchase this lecture. As for those who make comments that they don't find my review channel helpful - please don't visit! My channel is obviously not designed for you. You can go listen to the usual promotional advertisement drivel that exists.


Yes, if we watch other review channels, we must be fools, and they must be frauds. Only, your opinion isn't drivel.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.

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saysold1
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Quote:
On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Hi Guys

Brett Barry here, creator of the SVENPAD(R) line of products. The name is a registered worldwide TRADEMARK, and sven pad is not a generic name - just to clarify.

I watched the UnbiasedMagicReview video today and read some of the comments here. Fun times on the Café!

Yeah, I guess I'm "biased" since I am the manufacturer of these popular utility props.

But I know a few things having made more than 10,700 comments here at the Magic Café going back near 2+ decades compared to Dr. UnbiasedMagic who arrived in 2017 and has a meager 270 posts here and trying mightily to build his YouTube audience.


How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads?

Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion.

If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy.


Seth that's a plain ignorantly goofy remark. Really.

I joined here a LONG time ago as a hobbyist - look it up. Like 12+ years ago. I lurked long before that. Also if you care to search back you will see that I have been a helpful member here on many subjects with lengthy reviews and helpful ideas and routines on a multitude of gimmicks and releases.

The SVENPADS came out around 2015. As a creator of what has become one of the world's #1 selling magic products ever (over 200,000 sold and counting), I have endeavored to answer questions and offer Nordstrom/Costco levels of service to all. I'm not going to get into it with you - but besides now being a full time performer since 2013 (I switched from a 25 year career in sales) I now also create & consult privately for many of the most famous magicians in the world which has been a lot of fun. I try to be a good force in the community. But there are those who don't like me - and I honestly don't care. I dealt with more confrontation in 25 years of sales than anything in the magic community. My customers know what I stand for, and my customers know I always do the right thing in terms of support/follow up and service.

The late Bob Cassidy was a good friend and mentor when I developed the SVENPADS - a friend I spoke to weekly for years. He didn't put up with cr--p here at the Café either - spoke his mind, always offered his wisdom.

Love me or hate me - I could care less. I am one of the good guys here and when I'm taking a dirt nap someday, the SVENPADS will be a legacy for the magic community - a registered trademarked name that stands for quality and innovation.

Final post on this thread! I promise Smile Cheers
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of premium, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
Bernice
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Quote:
On Sep 8, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Hi Guys

Brett Barry here, creator of the SVENPAD(R) line of products. The name is a registered worldwide TRADEMARK, and sven pad is not a generic name - just to clarify.

I watched the UnbiasedMagicReview video today and read some of the comments here. Fun times on the Café!

Yeah, I guess I'm "biased" since I am the manufacturer of these popular utility props.

But I know a few things having made more than 10,700 comments here at the Magic Café going back near 2+ decades compared to Dr. UnbiasedMagic who arrived in 2017 and has a meager 270 posts here and trying mightily to build his YouTube audience.


How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads?

Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion.

If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy.


Seth that's a plain ignorantly goofy remark. Really.

I joined here a LONG time ago as a hobbyist - look it up. Like 12+ years ago. I lurked long before that. Also if you care to search back you will see that I have been a helpful member here on many subjects with lengthy reviews and helpful ideas and routines on a multitude of gimmicks and releases.

The SVENPADS came out around 2015. As a creator of what has become one of the world's #1 selling magic products ever (over 200,000 sold and counting), I have endeavored to answer questions and offer Nordstrom/Costco levels of service to all. I'm not going to get into it with you - but besides now being a full time performer since 2013 (I switched from a 25 year career in sales) I now also create & consult privately for many of the most famous magicians in the world which has been a lot of fun. I try to be a good force in the community. But there are those who don't like me - and I honestly don't care. I dealt with more confrontation in 25 years of sales than anything in the magic community. My customers know what I stand for, and my customers know I always do the right thing in terms of support/follow up and service.

The late Bob Cassidy was a good friend and mentor when I developed the SVENPADS - a friend I spoke to weekly for years. He didn't put up with cr--p here at the Café either - spoke his mind, always offered his wisdom.

Love me or hate me - I could care less. I am one of the good guys here and when I'm taking a dirt nap someday, the SVENPADS will be a legacy for the magic community - a registered trademarked name that stands for quality and innovation.

Final post on this thread! I promise Smile Cheers


Shouldn't salesmen endeavour to foment rapport and trust with potential customers, rather than repel them?

I don't trust you at all. I looked at your website once, after reading a thread with lot of criticism about you. I saw a whole array of other peoples' intellectual property (artwork by famous artists) being used in your commercial offerings. Guess what the thread was about? You whining about other people using "your" intellectual property.

The posts you've made in this thread are some of the most cringe-worthy content I have seen a business owner distribute. Magic attracts some of the most singularly weirdest people I have come across.
Chaz93
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2022, Bernice wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 8, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote:
Hi Guys

Brett Barry here, creator of the SVENPAD(R) line of products. The name is a registered worldwide TRADEMARK, and sven pad is not a generic name - just to clarify.

I watched the UnbiasedMagicReview video today and read some of the comments here. Fun times on the Café!

Yeah, I guess I'm "biased" since I am the manufacturer of these popular utility props.

But I know a few things having made more than 10,700 comments here at the Magic Café going back near 2+ decades compared to Dr. UnbiasedMagic who arrived in 2017 and has a meager 270 posts here and trying mightily to build his YouTube audience.


How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads?

Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion.

If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy.


Seth that's a plain ignorantly goofy remark. Really.

I joined here a LONG time ago as a hobbyist - look it up. Like 12+ years ago. I lurked long before that. Also if you care to search back you will see that I have been a helpful member here on many subjects with lengthy reviews and helpful ideas and routines on a multitude of gimmicks and releases.

The SVENPADS came out around 2015. As a creator of what has become one of the world's #1 selling magic products ever (over 200,000 sold and counting), I have endeavored to answer questions and offer Nordstrom/Costco levels of service to all. I'm not going to get into it with you - but besides now being a full time performer since 2013 (I switched from a 25 year career in sales) I now also create & consult privately for many of the most famous magicians in the world which has been a lot of fun. I try to be a good force in the community. But there are those who don't like me - and I honestly don't care. I dealt with more confrontation in 25 years of sales than anything in the magic community. My customers know what I stand for, and my customers know I always do the right thing in terms of support/follow up and service.

The late Bob Cassidy was a good friend and mentor when I developed the SVENPADS - a friend I spoke to weekly for years. He didn't put up with cr--p here at the Café either - spoke his mind, always offered his wisdom.

Love me or hate me - I could care less. I am one of the good guys here and when I'm taking a dirt nap someday, the SVENPADS will be a legacy for the magic community - a registered trademarked name that stands for quality and innovation.

Final post on this thread! I promise Smile Cheers


Shouldn't salesmen endeavour to foment rapport and trust with potential customers, rather than repel them?

I don't trust you at all. I looked at your website once, after reading a thread with lot of criticism about you. I saw a whole array of other peoples' intellectual property (artwork by famous artists) being used in your commercial offerings. Guess what the thread was about? You whining about other people using "your" intellectual property.

The posts you've made in this thread are some of the most cringe-worthy content I have seen a business owner distribute. Magic attracts some of the most singularly weirdest people I have come across.



Padgali was around way before the Svenpad, but Brett conveniently ignores that and claims to be the first to bring a sven pad to market.
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