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gregg webb
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I just read a terrific new book on Erdnase by Dr. Chris Wasshuber called The Cardsharp and his Book. I found the research to be remarkable. He started by reading all of and also acquiring a good deal of the previous research and going much farther from there. Available from Lybrary.com
EvilClown
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It came out in 2016 so not new. But Wasshuber has done tremendous research on the subject to be sure.
gregg webb
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Thank you, Evil. New to me, I guess. Anyway, from that book I found that Erdnase wrote another book, Jack Pots, which is a book of stories only about a travelling gambler at the turn of the century. The pseudonym this time is Eugene Edwards. I'm studying it to find patter and presentational ideas. It is available from Lybrary.com
Kjellstrom
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I found this video. Looks very interesting. Check it out.

https://erdnase-movie.com/
gregg webb
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Thank you. Dr. Wasshuber told me about this last night. Will air more widely tonight if I understand correctly. A wider interest in Erdnase can't be bad for magic. Thanks again.
Leo H
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Wasshuber's candidate Andrew Gallaway was never a serious contender. With no smoking gun evidence, Wasshuber attempted to pass him off as Erdnase. Even the circumstantial evidence for Gallaway is weak.
gregg webb
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Did you read the book? I just did. I thought there was a lot of evidence. I used to think it was Sanders, but this book changed me to Gallaway. I respect your opinion if you really read the book. If you are going by what others have said, I'd be less inclined to change my mind again. Stay in touch. But, honestly, there was more evidence for Gallaway in Dr. Wasshuber's book than I've seen for the others. There are things that seem like smoking guns to me. I don't want to give them away and spoil someone's "read".
gregg webb
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I feel I should say that Dr. Wasshuber isn't trying to "pass off" Gallaway on anyone. He actually believes his research and believes Gallaway is Erdnase. After reading the book, I also believe Gallaway is Erdnase. Dr. Wasshuber is more convinced by the forensic language analysis but I am more compelled by other parts of the book, not having a technical mind.
Leo H
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On Aug 7, 2022, gregg webb wrote:
Did you read the book?


What for? I have already read the evidence that Wasshuber presented on the Genii Forum Erdnase thread. The circumstantial evidence on Gallaway was weak, very weak. There is no smoking gun evidence that definitively tells us that Gallaway was indeed Erdnase. Absolutely nothing. Therefore Wasshuber should not be claiming that Gallaway is indisputably the Erdnase.

He hired a linguistics expert to validate his notion that Gallaway's writing style was similar to Erdnase. The expert's conclusion was unconvincing. All you have to do is compare Gallaway's writing style to The Expert st the Card Table and you will quickly understand he was not Erdnase. You need to read the Erdnase thread on the Genii Forum. It's an Erdnase book unto itself.

If you study Bob Coyne's PDF on the incredible linguistical similarities between the writings of Sanders, and Erdnase, it will leave you shaking your head. Coyne is an English professor at Columbia University. Some compelling circumstantial evidence that points to W. E. Sanders as Erdnase:

1. Sanders played with anagrams of his own name in his notebooks as a schoolboy. Interestingly, W.E. Sanders is a perfect anagram of S. W. Erdnase.

2. Sanders frequented gambling establishments in Montana. There is absolutely no evidence that Gallaway ever walked into a gambling joint.

3. Sanders was familiar with card magic and attended magic shows. He described in his diary about seeing thru a magician's tricks.

4. Sanders' writing style is uncannily similar to Erdnase. Bob Coyne's PDF describes this in much detail.

5. Sanders was very close to Chicago at the time Erdnase was believed to have been there to work on his book: December 1901.

6. Sanders matches the physical description of Erdnase that Marshall Smith (the illustrator that Erdnase hired for the book) gave to Martin Gardner in the 1940s. Smith was 6 feet tall and remembered having to look down at Erdnase. Sanders was about 5"6 to 5"8.

The late David Alexander's article on W. E Sanders in the January 2000 issue of Genii Magazine, and Marty Demarest's follow up essay in the September 2011 issue are required reading for students of Erdnase.
gregg webb
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I know. I used to think it was Sanders. But, after actually reading his book, I switched to Gallaway because he has found zillions of factoids that are truly compelling. I've read the other things you mentioned. Meanwhile, Callaway's Aunt was an Andrews. Well, sounds like you're sticking to your guns. p.s. There are some things that you didn't mention which are the things that convinced me...that are in the book. GW
Chris
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On Aug 4, 2022, EvilClown wrote:
It came out in 2016 so not new. But Wasshuber has done tremendous research on the subject to be sure.


A clarification. Yes, the first edition of the book was released in 2016, but this was a project in progress. I released new and expanded editions of my work over the years because I found out a lot more about Gallaway as my research continued. I only recently fully updated my book. That is also why what you find on the Genii forum is incomplete. I haven't posted there in years. I guess my Erdnase research will never be totally finished, but I have reached a point where I think I have found out as much as I can about Edward Gallaway. So if you have only read the 2016 edition you are missing a lot. (All those who have purchased the ebook can download the latest edition free of charge from the digital shelf in the Lybrary account.)
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Chris
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On Aug 7, 2022, Leo H wrote:
He hired a linguistics expert to validate his notion that Gallaway's writing style was similar to Erdnase.


Leo, a sincere question. What do you think is more objective? Hiring a professional forensic linguist, one who frequently appears in courtrooms as an expert witness, who had no prior connection to magic and the Erdnase research in particular, or doing your own linguistic report as Bob Coyne did? Bob is an advocate for Sanders who wrote his own linguistic report. This is hardly an objective analysis. Additionally, David Alexander and Richard Kyle, the two primary investigators of Sanders agreed that Sanders did not write like Erdnase. Read their letters to each other and you will find out. These letters are reproduced here https://www.lybrary.com/the-magician-as-......845.html

Quote:
On Aug 7, 2022, Leo H wrote:
6. Sanders matches the physical description of Erdnase that Marshall Smith (the illustrator that Erdnase hired for the book) gave to Martin Gardner in the 1940s. Smith was 6 feet tall and remembered having to look down at Erdnase. Sanders was about 5"6 to 5"8.


Repeating incorrect information is not very helpful. Sanders' passport states his height as 5'8.5". Which is significantly taller than the 5'6" Smith remembered. Smith remembered a blondish person. Gardner wrote: "Recalls him as blondish. At any rate, did not have dark hair or eyes." Sanders has dark hair and eyes. One can therefore not claim that Sanders matches Smith's physical description of Erdnase.
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Leo H
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You have nothing Chris--absolutely nothing. If you had found the smoking gun, we would have all known by now. You haven't. You're riding on circumstantial evidence and nothing more. Nothing!!!

Smith had to look down at Erdnase. The two inches you're quibbling about is nothing. Nothing!!!

Present your evidence that Gallaway ever walked into a gambling establishment. Otherwise you have nothing. Nothing!!!

Coyne's linguistic comparison of Sanders with Erdnase is far more objective than your "expert." Coyne did his research for free out of love for the subject. You paid your "expert." He's going to tell you whatever you want hear.
Leo H
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On Aug 7, 2022, Chris wrote: Additionally, David Alexander and Richard Kyle, the two primary investigators of Sanders agreed that Sanders did not write like Erdnase.


Alexander did not have access to Sanders' diaries at the time he expressed that, if he had read Sanders' other works like his humorous college yearbook essays, and other writings beyond the mining engineering books, he would have had a more complete picture. He didn't at that time. Alexander died in 2010, so he wasn't given more time to continue his work on Sanders.

Mart Demarest is another primary Sanders/Erdnase investigator you conveniently left out. His article in the September 2011 issue of Genii points out the uncanny writing similarities between Sanders and Erdnase. Whatever it is you're trying to do Chris--it's not working.
Chris
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On Aug 7, 2022, Leo H wrote:
You paid your "expert." He's going to tell you whatever you want hear.


But I didn't tell him anything and certainly not what I "wanted to hear" as you put it. I sent him the texts and merely asked if anybody could be Erdnase. His conclusion was that Gallaway could very well be, in fact, that it was likely that he was Erdnase, and that Sanders was from all the texts he inspected (including his diaries and yearbook) the farthest away from Erdnase.

Alexander and Kyle had the engineering articles of Sanders and concluded he doesn't write like Erdnase. This is technical writing as Expert at the Card Table is. One needs to see a match in technical writing. Gallaway matches Erdnase with his technical writing on printing. Poetry doesn't count.
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Leo H
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On Aug 7, 2022, Chris wrote: Alexander and Kyle had the engineering articles of Sanders and concluded he doesn't write like Erdnase. This is technical writing as Expert at the Card Table is. One needs to see a match in technical writing. Gallaway matches Erdnase with his technical writing on printing. Poetry doesn't count.


Wrong. The Expert at the Card Table is not strictly technical writing as a mining engineering book would have to be. There's a lot more in The Expert than just technical writing. You have forgotten the Mark Twainlike vernacular language of the Negro bathroom attendant in The Expert. It's the exact same type of vernacular language Sanders utilizes in his writings.

You have forgotten the humorous asides, and the facetiousness which Erdnase injects into his book. Those are the same writing features Sanders utilizes in his college yearbook essays. Kyle, and Alexander did not have Sanders' college yearbook essays to read at that time. You conveniently like to leave out evidence for Sanders that bolster his candidacy.

I'm still waiting for the smoking gun evidence on Gallaway. So far...nothing... Nothing!!! Not even a shred of evidence that Gallaway walked into a gambling establishment. Nothing!!!
Chris
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That is the special thing with Erdnase. Even though it is a technical book it has language that one typically does not find in a technical book. This makes Expert so unique and interesting to read. Sanders does not exhibit that special feature in his technical writing. He writes boring technical prose without any linguistic flourish, but Gallaway does. Why do you think Gallaway does write eloquent technical prose and Sanders does not?

To summarize, Leo requires "smoking gun" evidence for Gallaway but not for Sanders. Leo thinks that an advocate doing his own linguistic analysis is more objective than an expert who has no horse in the race and who couldn't care less who Erdnase is. You are not a critical thinker, Leo. BTW, the vernacular language can be found in lots of books from that time. See "Jack Pots" as one example. Other poker story books have it, too. It appears it was a popular thing to do.
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Leo H
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Wrong again. I require a smoking gun for Sanders as well. I have made no claim that Sanders is definitively Erdnase. All I see is compelling circumstantial evidence for Sanders. Not so much for Gallaway, and that railroad clerk Andrews fellow. Sanders has not been proven yet without equivocation, and neither has Gallaway.

All I have seen from Gallaway is technical prose. Where is the flowery vernacular language from him that was so ubiquitous at that time? Nothing. Nothing!!!

Erdnase was a gambler who frequented gambling establishments, he describes that in his book. We know that Sanders visited gambling housesin Montana from his diary entries. You still haven't been able to put Gallaway in a gambling joint.

Bill Mullins already explained in the Genii Forum Erdnase thread why your linguistics "expert" was way off. Here's what he recently had to say about Gallaway as an Erdnase candidate. I won't argue with his assertion:

Gallaway -- Pluses: I don't really see any, although Wasshuber tries to make a case in his book. Minuses: Covered extensively in this thread 2016 and after -- not particularly interested in rehashing them now.
Chris
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Mean and uninformed voices are plenty particularly online. It is telling that you can't even articulate your critique. Sorry, I forgot, you admitted to being uninformed about Gallaway.

The primary evidence is that Erdnase wrote a book, self-published and copyrighted it. How much of a gambler or magician he was the experts still argue. But what is clear is that he was a great writer who wrote technical prose in a wonderfully eloquent style. Sanders did not. Sanders never wrote anything for profit, never self-published, or copyrighted anything either. He therefore can't be Erdnase, no matter how many gambling joints he frequented or how many magic shows he saw. Gallaway writes eloquent technical prose, self-publishes, copyrights, and writes for profit. He is therefore a much more likely Erdnase based on that evidence alone.
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gregg webb
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Nice.
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