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Tajrung
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Unfortunately I also heard about it. It was real Russian roulette
TomBoleware
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Tajrung,

You asked about social media and what to post there. I know many that use Pictures on their page to tell a story. Pictures of you working would be great. I wouldn’t make it an advertisement for work, just a picture showing that you and the others are having fun with the magic. A simple caption saying something like ‘we had a great time last night at……..” Or maybe a picture of you packing for the show saying something like I’m getting ready to go to…..

Social media works if used right. It’s not a place to directly ask for business but it can be a place to show people what you do, and a place to make new friends that can help you spread the word. It’s all about building relationships with the right people. It's a slow go at times, but building a business is like building a building, you do it one brick at a time. You also work with different tools, you can't build a house with just a hammer.

Good Luck with it,

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Dannydoyle
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Taj thank you for providing the effective information needed to answer your question.
Without local knowledge of how your country and customs work any recommendation will be sort of difficult.

But first off you have the courage to be out there working! THAT will be a huge part of your success in my opinion. At first this is really a big deal friend. Being there for 1.5 years May not be long the grand scheme of things, but remember everyone’s counter started at zero. That is what makes us all equal.

I have a friend who works in Europe and will ask about some books to see if they can help.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tajrung
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2022, TomBoleware wrote:

You asked about social media and what to post there. I know many that use Pictures on their page to tell a story. Pictures of you working would be great. I wouldn’t make it an advertisement for work, just a picture showing that you and the others are having fun with the magic. A simple caption saying something like ‘we had a great time last night at……..” Or maybe a picture of you packing for the show saying something like I’m getting ready to go to…..

Tom



Yes I was thinking about it. I definitely try do something like that. Thank you
TomBoleware
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Glad I could help a little. I don’t know what is available to you there but there are many good books on using social media. One that comes to mind, that I know about, is an older book called “Influencer - Building A Brand In The Age Of Social Media.”

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Tajrung
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Thanks Tom I will definitely read it
Dannydoyle
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I was trying to drill down to his actual need and experience level as a starting point to offer some help. Again I genuinely believe being out there for a year and a half and trying to move forward is amazing. Him being in another entire country and culture will make it more difficult to help, but not impossible. Random suggestions about pictures on social media are just fluff. Probably won't hurt much, but certainly won't help.

The cultural differences are hard to get past sometimes. Often what is proper in one culture is absolutely forbidden in another. People tend to universalize their own experience (Especially in this forum.) It does not necessarily translate.

And again I can not stress enough how useful it is the OP working at one place for a year and a half! Congrats friend.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Fedora
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Mindpro wrote: "general sales and selling will need to be adapted to entertainment sales,
the process and mindset is completely different" (it continues from here)

What do you think is the significant difference between selling a show,
vs selling a chevy? (example)

I think of the whole post this was the most important to the subject at hand,
I believe the reasoning behind it might be helpful to
taj, myself, and others following this topic.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Sep 8, 2022, Fedora wrote:
Mindpro wrote: "general sales and selling will need to be adapted to entertainment sales,
the process and mindset is completely different" (it continues from here)

What do you think is the significant difference between selling a show,
vs selling a chevy? (example)

I think of the whole post this was the most important to the subject at hand,
I believe the reasoning behind it might be helpful to
taj, myself, and others following this topic.



There are many differences in selling live entertainment vs. conventional sales. But to truly begin to understand this one needs to realize a bigger picture that I've always believed that entertainment business operates on a different set of rules than conventional business. Once this concept is understood you can break it down to individual components of which Sales then comes into it.

As I said there are many differences but I've touched on several above. First the whole mindset and process of buying entertainment is different than conventional sales or business. Entertainment, for most, is not a need but a want. With few exceptions, it is not required or a must. Secondly, most people know or have some idea on how to buy a car, a refrigerator or appliances, clothes, groceries, air travel tickets, tires, and most other consumer goods. They are aware of brands, features, options, and pricing.

They do not know how to buy entertainment. It is so important to understand this as a performer. Because of this we must realize it and thoroughly understand it ourselves. Once we realize it we can use it to our advantage. To use it to our advantage we ourselves must understand what they do think, how they think, their initial thoughts, perceptions, reactions and expectations. This is why I say we (the entertainers) should realize and know this even before the buying prospect does.

To effectively do this we must understand the whole process to most typical buyers of live entertainment. It is important to understand the two business markets Consumer and Professional. Each are different and unique to themselves and operate differently in almost all aspects. In most consumer markets you are dealing with consumer customers and consumer-level performers. They (the prospect) are typically are uneducated and unfamiliar with how to look for and book entertainers. They default to consumer methods and thinking. For many years they went immediately to the Yellow Pages. Now the immediate go-to resource is Google. They type in something like "magicians in Chicago" and what immediately comes up is Gig Salad, The Bash (Gigmasters) and a few local magicians or venues that are paying for ads or top placement on the resource. This is why so many go to The Bash (Gigmasters) because they rank high, at or near the top, and offers what seems like convenient, one-stop shopping (what a great idea until their process kicks in and mayhem starts for the shopper). This is conventional thinking and shopping for entertainment on the consumer level, which is what most magicians operate on.

If this is their default and all they know, this is what will prevail unless someone educates them, or tells or shows them differently.

In the professional markets they do not shop for entertainment this way. They are typically people that have booked entertainment repeatedly and use industry resources rather than consumer resources. They also know and have an idea how to do this and the options, mindsets, and process available to them.

Understanding Consumer and Professional markets is the first step for us as performers. It is the reason some magicians get $300 per booking and others get $30,000 per booking for the same amount of time.

Next, is understanding expectations and perceptions. To most consumers there are only two levels (really 3) of performers - Amateurs and Professionals. They see amateurs as beginners, hobbyists, not or less experienced, and unsure about what they are or could be getting. Professionals offer a feeling of comfort, confidence, experience and professionalism. They feel more assured of a good performance and that it is what is best for their event. They have greater perceived value. They do not think of or accept "semi-professionals" as that is a performers' self-designation offered for a variety of personal insights not seen, understood or accepted by the general consumer.

These uneducated, inexperienced consumers need to be guided, led and taught to understand how to book entertainment. They need to know how to shop for entertainment, research entertainment, learn that all magicians/performers are not the same, and they need to be taught how and what to look for, what to consider, options, variables, inner-differences (closeup, strolling, stage, etc.) of the entertainers, and much more.

These are the two levels. The third level is that of top celebrity performers (Copperfield, Blaine, Angel, Lance Burton, Penn & Teller, etc.)

So to properly present and sell live entertainment the first step is realizing all of this. The second step is to then educate the customer on how to properly shop for entertainment and the differences. Where to go, what to look for, understanding the differences, the available options, unknown factors they should know and be aware of, and the right questions to ask when seeking entertainers.

In the process of doing this we need to know 1. how to properly present this knowledge to them, 2. how to present your services, and that 3. the perception in their minds is also subjective.

Before any selling is done we (the performer) must first gather the crucial and needed information to properly present our services and to determine if we can serve them.

Just this alone is much different than conventional sales where consumers have an idea or know how to shop and buy.

There are many other differences and aspects but let's just stay here for now.

This is also exactly why longtime sales professionals that think they can sell anything to anyone typically fail when trying to sell entertainment. They don't take the time to earn the product, industry, mindsets, psychology, and understanding of the process. As owner of 5 agencies I get sales professionals come in all the time wanting to become agents. They falsely believe they can sell anything, including entertainment. They can't in most situations. Most "good" sales people that I have encountered are terrible when trying to do entertainment sales.

In a former Tricky Business thread this exact thing happened to a member here and I told him what I thought the outcome would be, but assisted him on how best to approach such a deal with the sales pro. Here's that thread:

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......forum=44

As I share with those I work with, selling should be quite easy for performers as you are essentially crafting and presenting a sales "show" or presentation.

I believe performers should have 3 shows or performances available at all times within your business...

1. Your actual entertainment performance
2. Your Sales performance
3. Your Press & Media performance

I'll stop here for now but I hope this was helpful.
Much of this information (and more) is available in one of my lecture notes from my live event in Las Vegas for those that have this.

Fedora, I think this is the first main difference.
Fedora
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Well that was thorough, interesting to think of sales as a kind of performance,
thanks for taking the time to write all that.

Teaching a custumer about how to go about buying something is certainly something
a chevy salesman wouldn't have to deal with, entertainment isn't as simple, interesting.
Tajrung
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Hello guys.
I'm still there and I'm eager to learn.

Please remember I'm not 5 years old anymore and I don't believe everything I read on the Internet. Every piece of advice I hear I additionally still check and think if it is helpful for me or not. Remember that I am, however, very grateful that you take your precious time to help me. Your discussion gave me a lot to think about

I didn't think we had people on the forum who have been doing this for 45 years. It's really amazing. Thank you for every precious minute you spent to make my career go easier
Tajrung
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It's a little bit off topic. When customers call you, you ask them about their planned budget?
TomBoleware
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Tajrung, one quick thought that could help when thinking about sales in general.

It's true that nobody ‘needs’ a Magic Show. It’s also true that nobody really likes buying something they don’t need. The trick is to sell the outcome of having the show. This benefit could be many different things depending on the market you are in. It was Elmer Wheeler, a salesman and one of the pioneers of persuasion selling, that coined the phrase "sell the sizzle, not the steak" back in the early 1920’s. That phrase is still used today among successful salespeople. What Wheeler meant by this is that the sizzle is just as important, if not more so than the steak itself because it contributes to the experience and emotion that comes with eating a steak. To sell the sizzle, not the steak, means to sell the outcome and meaning of what it is that you’re selling, rather than the actual item.

Remember those words, ‘Sell The Sizzle, Not The Steak’ and you will do good with any type sales work.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Wravyn
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I have been sold sizzle and was very disappointed in the steak. As a customer, I never went back.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2022, Wravyn wrote:
I have been sold sizzle and was very disappointed in the steak. As a customer, I never went back.


I have too. But I would probably never have tried it on my own without hearing about the sizzle. That’s life, you win some and you lose some. Sales is not for everybody, but (and this is a fact) a business won’t make it without sales.

Now let me stop all the upcoming rebuttal/distracting comments by saying (which is only common sense) I am not saying you should mislead anyone with the sizzle. Above all, the product must live up to the expectations. Always.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Dannydoyle
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Not really a smart thing at all selling sizzle. Why? Because this puts you in almost constant customer acquisition mode. This is the most expensive part of the process! To chalk it up as “win some lose since that’s life, IN ENTERTAINMENT, is perhaps not the greatest idea.

Also you get words of mouth going about the disappointment involved, and boy that catches up to you fast.

Sell the experience of the restaurant. Selling sizzle leads to a problem. You get THAT reputation. Selling the experience of not only a great steak but atmosphere and location and service however is good. Then you get THAT reputation and your number of those you end up winning and losing shifts dramatically.

Nobody has ever said a business won’t make it without sales. Actually it isn’t true. Revenue is what is needed but I’ll let that lack of knowledge go.

No business can sustain itself without a properly directed sales force. A clear vision of what is being sold and how to sell it. Entertainment has as those needs, only turned a bit differently.

Selling sizzle is very short sighted. It deals with one sale at a time and in all honesty represents a desperate position. A sell at all costs position that I’ve never liked.

As was pointed out it leads to many not only not coming back, but telling others never to go. Not the strongest position to put your company in.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Sep 9, 2022, Tajrung wrote:
It's a little bit off topic. When customers call you, you ask them about their planned budget?


No, I wouldn't suggest this due to its implication and the perception it creates to the inquiring prospect. Let's play this out quickly to demonstrate my point. When you do this and ask "do you have a budget for the entertainment for your event?" you are creating a negative position in their mind. They immediately feel if they say "yes, $1,500" then all of a sudden your price will be $1,400 or $1,500. They feel you will be adjusting your price to their answer. Not a position I would want for my business to be perceived or as a starting point position for our pricing discussion.

It can be done when done so in a specific context, but still they can have the same perceived negative reaction and thoughts. Plus, there is no need for this when you know how to properly present your services, including pricing.

I believe in operating an entertainment business from a "No Negatives" foundation and premises. This means eliminate anything and everything that creates or comes from a negative statement, point or position. It makes for a better sales/presentation experience, a better customer experience, and a better relationship experience.

By asking the budget question it creates a negative in their minds. Let me ask you, why would you want to ask them this question? (seriously) Does your pricing or services depend on their answer to this question? Does it change the value of what you offer? (these are serious questions for you).

If Tom is truly going to stop now and the derailing will end, I will continue to assist you as Danny and others may as well. I would like to begin by asking you for something. What are the top 7 questions you currently have about where you are at right now in your business? You may have many more but think about what you would consider the top 7 questions in order of priority to you right now. Post them here for us all to see.

I am betting all of these questions will be answered in the information I am about to provide to you but if not we can address them as we go. Remember, no questions are bad, stupid, or wrong. (Others here can do it as well). I believe this will be a great starting point for what I (and others) will share with you. Thanks!
Dannydoyle
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I have to say something. I have always known my “value” to a client and have charged accordingly.

That being said my value has nothing to do with their budget. If they have a million dollar budget, my value does not increase. I still only bring the value I’m capable of. So I end up not delivering someone’s if I charge based on budget.

Know your value and charge accordingly. Always exceed expectations.

You are not suddenly worth more because they can afford more. This is a very common misconception in magic marketing literature and I think it often hurts.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Vandecarr
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I'm reluctantly chiming in because theres a good chance I'll get attacked here... but what the hell!!!

I can tell everybody here that a couple years back, Tom helped me with something and it panned out very well... I didn't become a millionaire from his help, but, his help was priceless for what I was working on at the time.

Next...

The very best and most effective marketing strategy I have ever used was from a guy named Dana Derricks... He has a book called "The Dream 100"

I read that book and applied what it taught and I can tell you without question it works!

Furthermore, it will work no matter where you live...

Want proof?

I was warned NOT to move to a particular tourist town where on of the gentlemen involved in this conversation live...

I was told horror stories and how I'd get trapped and would never succeed...

After having thee success of using The Dream 100, I did what I was warned NOT to do...

I moved to this tourist town, bought a half million dollar house and applied The Dream 100 Marketing Strategy.

That was in 2020... in the midst of the pandemic baloney...

Now, 2022, I paid off the house two weeks ago and have zero debt and continue to be massively successful where I was told I'd find guaranteed failure.

So, whats my point...

It doesn't matter what you do for marketing as long as you continue to take action and make adjustments as you go.

You can be successful, no matter where you live using Toms suggestions as well as MindPro's and Danny's or Mine.

The arguing on this page is embarrassing and it should stop! Life is to short and egos are B.S.

Have fun and stay after it!
TomBoleware
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Mike,

It’s very brave of you to jump in the middle of this hornet's nest. Smile

Thanks for your kindness.

I have loved watching you climb your way up the success ladder over the years. You are the real deal for sure.
You’re a good example that staying positive and working hard really works. I’m proud of you my friend.

I too recommend Dana Derricks's work.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
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