The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » How Do I...Entertainment Business? (65 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
Fedora
View Profile
Elite user
Arizona, usa
427 Posts

Profile of Fedora
Thanks for the list, interesting that one person can have
that many positions in a career, and is still willing to take time
to help out folks on the Café.
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I have heard from Tajrung by PM and he is aware of this thread now and will hopefully post.

The things is is that it IS my career that let's me to post and be an active contributor here. As any touring professional knows when you spend 40+ weeks a year on the road you are essentially traveling and prepping 23 hours to perform our 75 minutes on stage so there is a lot of down time in airports, hotels, at the venue after setup/soundcheck but before the show, at travel stops, restaurants, and so on which gives me the opportunity to stay active here. That's why I pop in several times throughout the day.
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2944 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
The problem with kids party markets is there aren't any real numbers to follow on the market but maybe some others will chime in here with how it's been for them.


The ones that I know, and I do know and talk to many, are doing great.

History tells us that entertainment is always at its peak right after a war or some other event that slows things down. Children are needing a break from all the shutdowns now more than ever. And if that is used as a selling point I think doors will start to open back up for most everyone.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
danfreed
View Profile
Inner circle
West Chester PA
1306 Posts

Profile of danfreed
This summer was busier than ever with preschool and summer camp shows, but my birthday gigs started to decline significantly starting about 4-6 months ago. I don't know why, there could be several reasons, inflation, Covid, people booking other type of stuff, SEO on my site not doing as well as it used to, competition, etc. I wasn't worried about it in the summer because I was so busy and burnt out. I do get a fair amount of requests for gigs that are out of my area so I turn them down, it seems like some areas of PA and Delaware are underserved or the people there aren't marketing themselves well enough to be found.
misterillusion
View Profile
Special user
Roseville, California
738 Posts

Profile of misterillusion
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
The problem with kids party markets is there aren't any real numbers to follow on the market but maybe some others will chime in here with how its been for them.


My target market is children shows. This past May, June, and July were the most productive months ever. July, for example was three times the volume of shows in number of shows and income. The shows were primarily birthday parties and daycare shows. August took a dip, possibly due to schools back in session(?). September is starting to perk up and October looks like it will be very busy. I also am negotiating for a theme park gig for October which will really boost my numbers. I am also booking Christmas gigs plus I have booked a casino gig in Reno for next year.
May every day be magic!

http://www.misterillusion.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, misterillusion wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
The problem with kids party markets is there aren't any real numbers to follow on the market but maybe some others will chime in here with how its been for them.


My target market is children shows. This past May, June, and July were the most productive months ever. July, for example was three times the volume of shows in number of shows and income. The shows were primarily birthday parties and daycare shows. August took a dip, possibly due to schools back in session(?). September is starting to perk up and October looks like it will be very busy. I also am negotiating for a theme park gig for October which will really boost my numbers. I am also booking Christmas gigs plus I have booked a casino gig in Reno for next year.


I just appeared at a casino gig in Reno tonight, Lake Tahoe tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your results. It will be interesting to see how this years' Christmas season will be. I am expecting it up for most over last year but so far it seems like interest is in small-medium events and shows not larger bookings and events. Yes, I to am very excited and optimistic about next year. It's got signs of being a great year but eyes are on a pending recession.

It is hard to get industry trends and numbers on kids parties because it is not really part of the industry stats as most are private events.
The casino market seems good and I expect that to carry into next year as well. Best of luck on the theme park and casino the rest of the year, and a great holiday season.
Ken Northridge
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlantic City, NJ
2368 Posts

Profile of Ken Northridge
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
The problem with kids party markets is there aren't any real numbers to follow on the market but maybe some others will chime in here with how its been for them.


Here are some real numbers:

My summer season: Kids shows are up 14% comparing it to 2019, and up 6% comparing to the best summer I ever had.

No matter how you add it up the kid show business is back!
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2022, Ken Northridge wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
The problem with kids party markets is there aren't any real numbers to follow on the market but maybe some others will chime in here with how its been for them.


Here are some real numbers:

My summer season: Kids shows are up 14% comparing it to 2019, and up 6% comparing to the best summer I ever had.

No matter how you add it up the kid show business is back!


Thanks for sharing Ken, that's great news. It leads me to my next question...are you doing anything different or have you adapted your marketing message since the pandemic? Donald mentioned "one thing that might have made a difference, was that I stated on my website that I was vaccinated, as many parents were initially asking about that" which I thought was excellent. Anyone else doing anything different, more or have changed positioning since returning from the pandemic? Not just for kids parties but in all markets?

I think some markets are just up due to the anticipation of their return like festivals and fairs and other public events, while other markets gave utilized direct campaigns to try to create this, like the cruise industry. What is your experience?
Ken Northridge
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlantic City, NJ
2368 Posts

Profile of Ken Northridge
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2022, Mindpro wrote:
It leads me to my next question...are you doing anything different or have you adapted your marketing message since the pandemic?


Interesting question. The short answer is no.

Early in the pandemic I would offer a no questions asked cancelation policy. But it didn't take long for me to realize it was best not acknowledge the pandemic at all. Its a negative. As time went on more and more groups were ready to get back to normal, and, like me, wanted to forget this terrible thing ever happened.

I realize there are STILL groups that are VERY fearful. Just about a month ago I did a magic show for pre school. Not only were masks still mandatory, the teachers scolded the children every time a child's mask slipped below their nose. They constantly interrupted my show to correct the 2 and 3 year olds! I felt so sorry for those kids. And needless to say, it didn't make for a very fun show.

But to get back to your question, for the most part I'm trying to pick up were I left off before the pandemic started.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Sep 22, 2022, Ken Northridge wrote:
Early in the pandemic I would offer a no questions asked cancelation policy. But it didn't take long for me to realize it was best not acknowledge the pandemic at all. Its a negative. As time went on more and more groups were ready to get back to normal, and, like me, wanted to forget this terrible thing ever happened.


Wow! Wow! Wow! I feel the very same was and this is so important as one of the things I each to all I work with is the eliminating of all negatives in the operation of your entertainment business. This is so important that you bring this up. I can't tell you how many times I talk to another performer or visit their website, see their promo or video, or hear their sales presentation and they're riddled with negatives. "Can',t", "won't" "don't," putting down other performers, discouraging this or that, speaking of bad past experiences, and many, many more. Most attempt to do this in an effort to provide an outcome that they provide or to demonstrate what they don't or won't do. I strongly believe in eliminating ALL negatives from your operations in all aspects. It begins at the foundational level. Such an important topic as this works against so many performers.
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I've been in regular contact with Tajrung and know he's been reading and staying up on this thread and seems very appreciative. He assures me he will be back posting soon as he's been tied up with some family/personal matters.

So let's continue...

Tajrung said “I know my close-up show could be better.”

First, before I offer any more real assistance I must say this…Before even considering any marketing or trying to generate bookings, you must have your performance market-ready. This means in all aspects.

Your performance must be great, polished, and well rehearsed. It can not just be a handful of tricks strung together one after another. It must be congruent. It must have a flow and a purpose. It must look, feel, and be perceived as professional. You are not just a guy that does “some magic tricks” but rather you are a skilled professional magician. Your performance has a well-rehearsed beginning, middle and end. While yes, your performance should have all of the magic, patter, and presentation of your tricks and abilities, it should also have personality, transitions, interaction, an memorable or impactful experience, and the components that lead them to a specific and desired outcome.

In your current situation there is the outcome of a generating tip for your performance. This must also be done professionally, humbly, and earnestly. But it is more than that. Your desired outcome should also be to present them with your business card or post card to plant seeds to appeal to them and their possible interests, and to hopefully generate interest in considering or booking your services for future events.

Your performance must be skillfully designed to have all of these elements within it in a way that does not seem needy, pushy, or salesy.

Until this is done you are not performance-ready.

So understanding this is absolutely first and foremost a priority.

If this is not done, stop here and work solely on this. It may not seem like it, but this is the first step to becoming market-ready and to create what is needed for the marketing you are trying to get to.

If you feel your close-up (or any of your offerings) are not up to the full and needed level, you need to address and work on this. This is your product. It is the product you will be marketing and selling. It is the basis for your reputation. Do whatever you must do to get this to the professional level need to best represent your performing business. If you can’t do it yourself seek a performance coach or mentor to assist you.

Also, you mentioned your stage show. Do you have a sound system, mic, music, and everything you’ll need for your stage show?

Tajrung, please respond to this so we better understand your thoughts. Next, I will address your question about how to talk to people and sell your business, pricing, and exactly what to say.
Tajrung
View Profile
New user
36 Posts

Profile of Tajrung
Hey I'm all in and thanks for starting a new thread, I didn't have time to read all these arguments. I am grateful for the help you are putting in to help me

I have my own business cards, which I give to everyone after the show, they are nice I am not ashamed of them. My asking for a tip is not pushy,I understand that it is better to earn less, but in a more honest way than more by embarrassing people and getting money just because someone is stupid not to give it to me People often tip me on their own. Admittedly, I no longer like it and I honestly would like to quit this restaurant and strike out on a different branch of work as a magician, because I no longer feel good about myself getting tips, I spent too much time doing it to work for tips. I feel that it diminishes me, weakens me as a person. Also, I don't think it's always fair, sometimes someone wants to show off to a girl or is drunk and having a good day. I try to do my job professionally, I dress well and people often compliment my clothes (remember they are drunk)

I have my own microphone, which the DJ plugs in for me at the event. There is no music in my show, I am just thinking about how to add it and at what point. I had a mentor who helped me and said that this show is at the right level to present it already, he, however, helped me with the magic side of show business and not the business side. I am able to do everything well technically, I could add a little more glow. It is known that it is not a diamond but by doing shows I will polish it. I'm a perfectionist and I want to be a professional so I know there's room for improvement, but I think I'll gain more by doing the show and improving it by analyzing each show than by locking myself in a room for a few months and thinking about it

Thanks to talking to you, a door in my head has opened a bit. I've changed my perception on the commodity and I know that the viewer is the most important one. I know that in strong magic you read that just because I like the effect doesn't mean I should show it, but you have to realize that after time, thanks to which I changed a little bit my close up.
I have an important family meeting right now but will try to visit the post as often as possible. I've done a cursory read through the whole thread and I hope I've answered all the questions
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20586 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I’m not sure how this translates culturally but let me try.

Hire are tips perceived in your area? I don’t think you need to look down in yourself at all for accepting them if they are offering. It is obviously a personal choice. But if someone was moved enough by what you have done to tip you, I’d let them and feel good about it. I would not openly solicit tips.

It is a touchy subject for sue and I’m not quite sure why. If it is culturally acceptable I’d say do it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
misterillusion
View Profile
Special user
Roseville, California
738 Posts

Profile of misterillusion
I need to interject something here about MINDPRO and DANNYDOYLE. Even though I have been in this entertainment business since 1995, I admit that I may know how to entertain, but I am not very savvy in the marketing department. Listen to these two guys!!!! In Vietnam we were told that the best way through a mine-field was in someone else's boot-steps. Let me be specific.....a week or so ago I bought one of MINDPRO's books. So far I have only read half of the book, but I applied what I read in the first half of the book and closed a deal just now that I would never have closed without the concept I learned from MINDPRO's book. It was simply the fact I was doing something incorrect and did not realize it. I was thinking like a magician!!! .....word to the wise.
May every day be magic!

http://www.misterillusion.com
Tajrung
View Profile
New user
36 Posts

Profile of Tajrung
Misterillusion
What is the name of this book I may not be at the stage yet where I should read it, but I would like to remember what is worth buying someday

Danny

Tipping in Poland is quite a specific topic, people tend not to give them, if I went to a restaurant I would most likely pay the bill and leave nothing for the waiter. My friends and loved ones most likely wouldn't either. We don't have a very developed culture of tipping. In practice, it looks like you can perform in a restaurant for tips or for a rate, the restaurant pays the magician for the performance, which takes place once a week for 1-3h. These are small amounts of money. Or you can perform for tips, then the restaurant doesn't pay you anything but at the end of each show you ask the audience for money. You can perform when you want and as long as you want, it was good for me as I was learning and exploring this world. In my case at the end I say. Thanks a lot I hope you liked it if you liked it you can drop me something in the box this is the way I make a living, it is sincere. That's when I pull out my business cards too, for that small amount of time I'm able to notice if someone reaches into their wallet or not. I don't persuade anyone and I'm able to sense from experience whether someone liked the show or not. If I feel they don't want to watch the show anymore and I'm only halfway through, I end quickly and don't ask for tips. Unfortunately, people in Poland need to be made aware that they can pay for it and often when they are told, hey can you give me money for this they react but great of course we'll give you money. However, in my heart it started to bother me that I have to speak up and openly ask for money. I don't persuade anyone to tip me, when people ask if they should pay for it I speak frankly and if someone doesn't have money I make the same show for them as for those who do. Let's not kid ourselves performing for money at weddings and corporate events is more prestigious. There's also the problem with tipping, that waiters think that some of their tips are being taken away from them and then they have even less chance to get something for themselves. I've learned how to deal with this and make both sides happy but that's another topic
Tajrung
View Profile
New user
36 Posts

Profile of Tajrung
I wrote that I was talking openly about tips, and only now I thought that some might think it was something like pushy persuasion. That's not the case, it's just that people need to be made aware that they can pay for it, if I didn't say it then most likely one table two tables would have paid me during the whole evening. Persuasion to leave a tip for me is when I would stand and wait until they give me or then as if someone said they only have a card and I would start saying it's not a problem you can send me a transfer to my phone number. On busing people know they can pay me, during table hopping people expect that it costs money they often ask before the show if it is paid and how much it will cost them. Then I answer that the show is free but if they want they can tip me at the end, but I am very happy to show them something for free, in such situations I don't ask for money at the end because I know they already know they can give me something.
misterillusion
View Profile
Special user
Roseville, California
738 Posts

Profile of misterillusion
Quote:
On Sep 24, 2022, Tajrung wrote:
Misterillusion
What is the name of this book I may not be at the stage yet where I should read it, but I would like to remember what is worth buying someday

I sent you a PM
May every day be magic!

http://www.misterillusion.com
Ken Northridge
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlantic City, NJ
2368 Posts

Profile of Ken Northridge
I’m not sure this comment will be helpful or not, but about tipping…

I am continually amazed at the ‘keeping up with the Jones’s’ mentality of tipping. Very often if one person tips, and is seen tipping, the second and third party does not want to be seen as being cheap. Therefore, they will tip as well, and so on and so on.

And the opposite is true also. If no one is tipping, there is no reason for them to tip. Many people don’t tip because the feel it might be inappropriate. Because after all, they don’t see anyone else tipping.

I have seen many good suggestions written up on how to get the tipping started. This all depends on the venue you are working, the situation and the culture.

I only bring this up because it may be well worth your while to find a way to suggest tipping. It should be a way which fits your personality and the culture you are in. Don’t underestimate the amount of money you add to your fee with tips.

By the way, Tajrung, if at all possible, try to stay away from a ‘tips only’ situation. If you need to put food on the table for your family, I understand. But I have found that if you don’t have enough respect for yourself by asking for a fee, the person that hired you will not have respect for you either.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Eternal Order
10241 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On Sep 23, 2022, Tajrung wrote:
Thanks to talking to you, a door in my head has opened a bit.


Great to hear. That is really what this is all about. Thanks for address ig my questions and concerns.

With regard to tipping, beside being culturally different, tips can be a welcome entity to mos performers. However, as a business model it may have been a starting point and opened an initial performing and revenue-generating opportunity, but as Ken said it is really nothing to build your business upon. I think you have a positive, healthy mentality about tipping.

So now that we have a better understanding of your current situation, your level of experience, and you have filled in some details on these, let's move our focus to more of where you are headed and the direction you want to go.

One quick question though, you privately explained to me about your current family meeting and the matter you are currently involved and busy with. Will it create a performing opportunity from this? Just curious.

Next, let me say thank you for sticking with this topic through all of the distractions, derailments, and accusations. Hopefully, as you can see, there are many here seriously interested in trying to help you with only the sincerest of intentions. No one should have to be subjected to wade though all of the crap that has become part of nearly every thread and it could've very easily scared you off as it has so many others, so I applaud you for sticking with this as I am confident you will come out the winner.

Also, glad to see you understand your current close-up show and stage show and that you understand they are a work in progress. So many magicians create a show (that they think they want) and try to figure out who to market it to and who would be interested in paying for it. call this the performers default business approach. However, there is also another way which is creating a show for the specific market or types of venues you are wanting to work, such as you've expressed weddings and corporate events (not kids events).

Now I understand that in the very beginning that may not be 100% possible but I only remind you of this as you are moving forward as often approaching it from this new mindset will directly have an impact on what you are adding, tweaking, or creating as you work on these shows and performances. For a general example, if you are working on doing more in the wedding market you wouldn't try to add or perform an animal flashcard routine (such as two-Headed Prediction), whereas you would be better off adding something more suited for the bride and groom, their parents/family, or the bridal party. Just an example.

As a professional it is more about the audience you are performing for, those that are hiring/paying you, and their expectations.

It is good to know you're working on polishing your shows and that they are a current work in progress.

So let's get back into it...

Your Question: You said “I don't know how to talk with people to sell them something if somebody ask me about show I will tell them the price and think this is ok. But I just want to get more gigs so I want to read something about marketing because I think my marketing skill is 0”

The first rule of business is you MUST know how to be able to talk about your entertainment business. If you can’t properly talk about your business you are not in business.

You must take the time to learn how to properly talk about your business. Properly means not only to talk about your business, but to do so in the way to create the exact outcome you desire.

The proper way includes who you are, what your business is, any specifics you want/need included, and anything that more defines or positions your business to be seen exactly as you desire. You should have a full version of this and a short, abbreviated 10-second version of this. This shorter version will be the harder one to create but will actually be the most effective in your business.

Being able to talk about your business is the real first step to marketing, selling, and generating bookings and profits for your business.

As basic as it sounds, the majority of performers can not do this well.



Let’s look at this a little closer…

You are at your restaurant gig. You are performing for a table and doing well. At the end of your set they ask you about your services. “Do you do (company events, weddings, anniversaries, private events, etc.)?” This is where your first question above comes in.

Let’s look at this a little closer…

Understand what is happening and expected when someone inquires or expresses interest in your services.

They have you right there in front of them, the place is right, they have just seen and experienced your magic, you have their attention, they may have just tipped you, and either you are offering your services or they have expressed an interest in your services by asking a question.

Stop and understand this fully.

The person is there and you know they have witnessed your magic, they are in the moment, you have their attention, and you are there engaged with them. This is the perfect situation to present and sell your services.

Think about what advertising, marketing, and promotion is all about. It is about getting their attention, generating interest, and getting them to raise they hand expressing their interest, and need of more or additional information. Businesses spend thousands and thousands of dollars to create this lead generation scenario. You have this exact situation in front of you - absolutely free!..take full advantage of it.

They are interested and on your home court.

If they want information you should be completely prepared at all times, and give them what they want.

What they really want, not what they think they want.

Remember, consumer default mentalities will lead this situation but you as they performer and skilled professional need to lead and take control of this situation knowing what they actually need to hear to satisfy their interest and curiosity. You must lead and control this. This is the ideal situation to be in.

First you must realize this as an opportunity. An opportunity for business, a booking(s), and a potential business relationship that could yield hundreds to thousand of dollars now and well into the future.

Do not blow this opportunity by deflecting their interest or questions or putting them off until ”a better time.” There absolutely no better time than while they are right in front of you in the moment with interest.

So now the responsibility turns to you and your preparation and being business-ready.

First you need the necessary tools. There are 7 things that you need:

1. A business card, post card, or brochure - something to present them NOW!

2. An Elevator Description of exactly how you want to present and position yourself and your business. This is the 10-second promotional description of you and your business in the exact way you want be seen and experienced. You must control this. This 10-second Elevator Description will be the most important tool in your business. It, when done properly, will create and generate thousands of dollars for you and your business. This will answer your questions of “what do I say” and “how do I do it?

This will also be used in all of your marketing and promotion, on your website, in business directories, in networking, when discussing with anyone in any situation who asks “what do you do?” or “tell me about your business?” Trust me this is more important that you will realize.

(see below for more on this)

3. A way to qualify them as truly being interested and being someone you can truly serve with your services

4. A way to obtain their contact information and next step in your process

5. The next Call To Action In your process - take them to the next step

6. Have a way to collect, write down, or record notes of your conversation, their contact info, and any other pertinent details or things discussed (date of event, location, times, their interests and expectations, etc.)

7. A promotional piece to follow-up with them - a brochure, one-sheet, promo video, etc.





Now let’s begin by looking closer at that ever-important Elevator Description.

Some people have something similar called an Elevator Pitch but this is different. This simply describes what you do while positioning your business and services to the prospect.

A “pitch” implies you are attempting to pitch them on something, to sell them something. This is not what you are really doing here. Yes, you ultimately hope it leads to a booking, but what you are doing is educating them about your services and and providing them information. The information you want them to have, the information they need to know, in the manner and sequence you want it presented.

Remember this…anytime your are educating or informing a prospect, you do not need to sell them. The information, when presented properly, does this from within. This is so important to remember in entertainment business.

Here is the first formula I will offer you...

Business Name> Your Name> - “What You Do” Statement> - Specialization> - Target Market

I will delve into this further to better explain and and allow you to better understand each element in my next post.

I will soon address the main "3 Ps" including pricing issue you mentioned once this Elevator Description exercise has been completed in my upcoming post, so stay tuned.
Tajrung
View Profile
New user
36 Posts

Profile of Tajrung
Thanks for your help ken

I have no problem asking for tips and talking about my employment and earnings. I just found it more profitable to get tips from people than money from the establishment, I could then perform more and earn more. I have a good establishment, and this whole thread was created mainly because I don't have to support my family and I would like to start cutting back on those tips
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » How Do I...Entertainment Business? (65 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2023 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.11 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL