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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Snapped thru the mat (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

vinsmagic
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Another impromptu effect that can be performed anytime and any where!

The card can even be signed!



---
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Levi Bennett
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I like it!
Performing magic unprofessionally since 2008!
Doomo
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Not even close to a new effect!
If you ever get to a point where words have no meaning, you're probably talking to a dog.

Remember! More Bang For LESS Bucks! It is the right way!

www.rfaproductions.com
vinsmagic
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Of course its not new I put this effect out over 20 years ago
I share my effects to anyone that may want the handling and perhaps one can improve upon it
guys like you just don't get it
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Doomo
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I put it out over 40 years ago in Apocalypse. Guys like you don't get it.
If you ever get to a point where words have no meaning, you're probably talking to a dog.

Remember! More Bang For LESS Bucks! It is the right way!

www.rfaproductions.com
Tortuga
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Gentlemen, the solution to this is really simple. Since Tony's contribution to the community is in print and documented, the bare minimum that Vinny should do is mention that whenever and wherever he talks about "his" invention.

Things get reinvented all the time, it is the hazard of creating something. Nobody, and I mean nobody knows every effect that has been created. Duplication, therefore is more than likely to occur. And often.

But, and this is the important point I think, when you "invent" something only to find it was already published, you go out of your way to acknowledge it. What you do from there depends.

Personally, given the fact this is in Apocalypse, and you can still buy it (in one form or another) I wouldn't be putting out any videos explaining how to do it. Others can choose to do otherwise.

For more on this and other ethical issues concerning magical invention, publishing, crediting and the like, please look for Harapan Ong's FREE book on the subject. I got mine as a free download from Vanishing, Inc.

It is a wonderful book, yes, an entire book, not simply an essay. Mr. Ong spent a great deal of time on this important issue. Give him the respect he deserves for giving this away to the community. He felt it was important and worth it and so do I.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
vinsmagic
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But not with my handling ........no one does what I do and dommo just likes to attack me no big deal hes a troll
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
vinsmagic
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WELL I TEACH THIS EFFECT FOR FREE.. if anyone want s to handling just message me
i don't re BOOKS BUT ICAN U AOR SANYONE ELSE PUT UP A DEMO OF THE EFECT THAT IS ALREADY OUT THERE
i have been pefoirming magic tBEFORE most on this site weRE BORN
put up DEMO THIS IS ALL I ASK... M,,,, QWORDS ARE CHEAP PLEs show a demo theni will compare
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
vinsmagic
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Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Mb217
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Quote:
On Sep 21, 2022, vinsmagic wrote:
Another impromptu effect that can be performed anytime and any where!

The card can even be signed!



---


Man, this looks good, just beautifully executed. I for one would like to see anything else to compare handlings, etc. You never know, this might be a real improvement, along the lines of how Matrix was improved upon to many greater impossibilities.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Tortuga
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Whether Matrix was improved upon is subject to debate.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
Gribble
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Quote:
On Sep 28, 2022, vinsmagic wrote:
if anyone want s to handling just message me


To be fair, your performance shows the handling just fine. Unintentionally, but there you go.

The main issue with it is not the sloppy handling, but more the logic. Would you do bill in lemon and preface it by saying "now, there is no bill in this lemon, please hold it for me"? No. Would you do card to wallet and say "now, there is no card in this wallet". No. Before the climax of cups and balls would you say "now there is no orange under this cup"?

The fact you "prove" there is no card under the mat, just really explains to people what is going to happen at exactly the point you do the load. Putting aside the sloppy handling, the entire method is really explained to the audience during the routine. That's the big problem.
Inlakesh
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Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Gribble wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 28, 2022, vinsmagic wrote:
if anyone want s to handling just message me


To be fair, your performance shows the handling just fine. Unintentionally, but there you go.

The main issue with it is not the sloppy handling, but more the logic. Would you do bill in lemon and preface it by saying "now, there is no bill in this lemon, please hold it for me"? No. Would you do card to wallet and say "now, there is no card in this wallet". No. Before the climax of cups and balls would you say "now there is no orange under this cup"?

The fact you "prove" there is no card under the mat, just really explains to people what is going to happen at exactly the point you do the load. Putting aside the sloppy handling, the entire method is really explained to the audience during the routine. That's the big problem.


Your logic is flawed here. Displaying the underside of the mat is a salient point with this routine. It doesn't relate to bill in lemon, or cups and balls. It more closely relates to penetration effects, not productions. And penetrations are generally always delineated beforehand within the buildup. When Copperfield walked through the China wall, he forecasted what the effect would be because it was a required part of the presentation.

You seem to have a perceptual bias against the poster of the video as you made underhanded passive-aggressive comments about him at least 4 times in your post. I get it, some people just cause emotional triggers in others and it makes them lash out irrationally. But if you are going to come at a man, at least come at him righteously. If you want to critique him, do it diplomatically. Rather then making blatant insults. that's not magicians helping magicians. That's psychological warfare. You know better Gribble. Whoever you are.
Gribble
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Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
Your logic is flawed here. Displaying the underside of the mat is a salient point with this routine.


Yup. It facilitates, and telegraphs, the load. Not sure you meant "salient"?

adjective: salient
1.
most noticeable or important.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
penetrations are generally always delineated beforehand within the buildup.


Again, not sure you meant "delineated"?
delineated
1.
describe or portray (something) precisely.

So not really sure what you're trying to say.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
When Copperfield walked through the China wall, he forecasted what the effect would be because it was a required part of the presentation.


Sure, but he didn't show the other side of the wall empty, and then load himself there during that display. That's the issue I have here.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
You seem to have a perceptual bias against the poster of the video


perceptual
relating to the ability to interpret or become aware of something through the senses.

?

No particular "bias", I just think the trick isn't good for the reasons I outlined.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
as you made underhanded passive-aggressive comments about him at least 4 times in your post.


I don't think they were underhand or pass agg. I was trying to be very clear. I just think his magic is sloppy and pointed that out. Very clearly, nothing underhand going on.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
if you are going to come at a man, at least come at him righteously. If you want to critique him, do it diplomatically.


Not my style. If someone posts something here, they should be prepared to have weaknesses pointed out. If they're too much of a snowflake to cope if someone doesn't like something, they shouldn't post. And Vinny certainly doesn't need you white knighting for him, whoever you are.
Tortuga
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Getting back to the subject at hand, variations are fine, and some do end up surpassing the original. But, and there's always a but, whether something is an "improvement" is subjective. The creator of Matrix, Al Schneider felt that the effect was not improved when other magicians began to produce a giant coin at the end. And he made a logical, and reasonable argument for it.

Soon after the jumbo coin climax, the coins began to change color and even later, size! Why? Because you can I suppose. But does that make it right? Does it move the bar higher?

The original Matrix still gets extremely strong reactions from non-magicians. Of course you have to perform and present it properly. It doesn't "need" any of the jumbo coins and Chinese changes. If you want to add them, go for it. Just don't say it is necessarily an improvement.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
Tortuga
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Regarding the original, published routine from Apocalypse, there is no need for Anthony to post a video of it. Challenging people in that way isn't proper, not in my book. It was in the book, that is good enough to warrant respect for its creation. Whether it is as good as, better than or lesser than the other routine doesn't matter at all. It was first, period.

That's what is missing, the recognition that it was first. I'm sure Anthony would be fine if whenever people publish or share their own versions they simply acknowledge the fact that he had it in print before them. That's not a lot to ask.

Ad-hominem attacks don't help on either side, in support of, or against people. Let's try to avoid them.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
Tortuga
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Here is the link where you can download, for free, Harapan Ong's wonderful book on the subject of crediting. Every magician who is serious about their craft should take the time to read it. Even if you end up disagreeing, at least you will gain a better understanding of why many of us believe these issues are critical to the future of magic.

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/ebooks/to-your-credit/
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
vinsmagic
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Tank you for thelink
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
pegasus
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Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Gribble wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
Your logic is flawed here. Displaying the underside of the mat is a salient point with this routine.


Yup. It facilitates, and telegraphs, the load. Not sure you meant "salient"?

adjective: salient
1.
most noticeable or important.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
penetrations are generally always delineated beforehand within the buildup.


Again, not sure you meant "delineated"?
delineated
1.
describe or portray (something) precisely.

So not really sure what you're trying to say.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
When Copperfield walked through the China wall, he forecasted what the effect would be because it was a required part of the presentation.


Sure, but he didn't show the other side of the wall empty, and then load himself there during that display. That's the issue I have here.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
You seem to have a perceptual bias against the poster of the video


perceptual
relating to the ability to interpret or become aware of something through the senses.

?

No particular "bias", I just think the trick isn't good for the reasons I outlined.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
as you made underhanded passive-aggressive comments about him at least 4 times in your post.


I don't think they were underhand or pass agg. I was trying to be very clear. I just think his magic is sloppy and pointed that out. Very clearly, nothing underhand going on.

Quote:
On Sep 29, 2022, Inlakesh wrote:
if you are going to come at a man, at least come at him righteously. If you want to critique him, do it diplomatically.


Not my style. If someone posts something here, they should be prepared to have weaknesses pointed out. If they're too much of a snowflake to cope if someone doesn't like something, they shouldn't post. And Vinny certainly doesn't need you white knighting for him, whoever you are.


Ignore him Gribble. Everyone else does.
vinsmagic
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INLE KISH OR WHAT EVER U FAKE name is, PUT UP A DEMO OF YOUR WORK SO WE ALL CAN CRITIQUE IT///////
WHAT I PUT UP ARE QUICKIE DEMONSTRATIONS . HOPEU LIKE THE CAPS ,,,,,, U HAVE BEEN ATACKING THIS OLD GUY FOR YEAR..... AND I HOPE WHEN GET TO BE MY AGE U CAN STILL PERFORM .ALL TJHOUGH NO ONE HAS EVE SEEN YOUR WORK.
U MUST OF PUT THE EFFET IN SUPER SLO MO BECAUSE U DIDNOT SEE ANYTHING
just speak for ur self you are so brilliant but others
who are peon's compared to you way want to learn THIS EFFECT.
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
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