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Mindpro Eternal Order 10606 Posts 
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On Oct 17, 2022, Andy Young wrote: No not at all. I have operated from an industry understanding and perspective for decades now. It was my ah-ha, breakthrough moment. It is based on established sciences, principles, and longtime standard created and established for and by the entertainment industry. The entertainment industry was and remains one of the most successful business industries worldwide. T.V., movies, theater, concerts, sporting events, broadcasting, and venues from Las Vegas to Broadway, to Moulin Rouge and many places in between. It is understanding operations from within all of these components and applying them to your entertainment business operations. This is why I always say entertainment business is entirely different than conventional business. If anything, some conventional business these days comes from the entertainment industry. It takes a commitment to learn and understand but makes the world of difference once understood and applied. Trust me "my" way would also be far different from the way many kids magicians operate. As I said, I would never label myself as a kids magician as it is so limiting. While some of my "me" preferences may be quite different than the industry standards, they simply wouldn't work as well or have the same results as the industry's. This is also why I rarely offer my own thoughts and opinions here as I don't want others to confuse the two. When you intentionally decide commit to one it really becomes easy. The problem is when guys think they know better than the long established industry standards, all kinds of delusions and problems become involved, or as we have seen here, many when given the choice will take they easiest way, which for most is their own "me" way as there are no rules or disciplines, just do as they wish and accept the level of results as is. This is most common with kids magicians as opposed to musicians, comedians, vocalists, dancers, models, and most other types of professional performers. Magic has no gatekeepers. Anyone can claim they are a professional magician (another reason I would not want to be seen as a magician). There is no barrier of entry, no governing body, no certifications or degrees (think directors, casting, filmmakers, unions, etc.), no recognized and respected hierarchy, etc. When done from a professional industry standard with everyone operating the same way seeking the same goals, there is no divergence of information. It is the acceptance of the "me-based" performer that creates this. Then within their own created bubble, it doesn't matter to them. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Andy So have I and I really want to keep that going and avoid the nonsense. Just really get to what is happening in todays business not old crap and old agenda getting in the way.
That was why I don’t think there is anything wrong with asking for clarification like you do. I think it helps. I think pointing out things Scott other points of view is great and not disrespectful at all. Some contend that there is a “tone” or whatever but that is all added by the reader. Thanks for keeping things moving forward!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts
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Thank You Donald for chiming back in.
I thought you said it well and I completely agree. Your website is so neat looking and well laid out that I’m sure a serious prospect spends a lot of time on it, and they can see the value you offer. You have more than enough info for them to make the decision to call. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts
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Well, Mindpro has a ton of experience, and lot's of helpful info, but I think with the "kids don't make decisions for birthdays" discussion, I have a different experience. He said he doesn't have demo videos for the kidshow magicians, which may make sense for him since he has so many people he represents, and a lot of them don't have demos or only bad demos, and the consistency wouldn't be there, and he has his own way of selling. That's all good for him, it sounds like it works very well. But for those of us who have good demos, the kids and parents do often watch the videos, sometimes over and over, and they do influence the parents, it's an excellent sales tool among other things, but of course the parent decides using multiple factors. One strong factor is what the birthday child wants, does he want a swim party, a moonbounce, or does he want that magician that makes him laugh a lot or looks really fun/cool or whatever, or does he want that magician that may be just as good or better but doesn't have a video. I'm sure that most kidshow guys with a good demo will tell you the same thing. I'm not an expert on SEO, but having a video on your site may help with SEO, in addition to selling you: https://www.smartbugmedia.com/blog/5-way......actually
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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Here is my question for those who let the web page do all the work. How do you reconcile that choice with the FACT that people spend less than a minute on your web page?
https://www.sevell.com/news/how-much-tim......-website I mean some interesting things here about web page analytics and such. (Tom PLEASE don't respond to this as it is a serious adult question that I would like those who participate in this thing directly NOW to answer. PLEASE don't derail this part ok?) Here are some interesting takeaways from the article. "Bottom line is, you want people to spend a lot of time on your website. But how much time do YOU spend on a website? Knowing the average visit to a website is only 45 seconds, does your website convey what you offer in that time? What about the 5 - 10 seconds someone will spend on your home page? How about your competitors websites? Do their websites tell a story in 45 seconds?" "If you think your prospects want to learn something about your company, you'd be wrong. The consensus in the world of marketing is: prospects don't care about you (or us). They care about learning what you do helps them. They want to know whatever you're offering solves their problems." ALMOST EVERY web page I see from a children's performer is about how great they are or what they offer or how "very unique" they are. (Which is absurd because "unique" is an absolute state and does not take a qualifier.) Something to think about. There is no clear value proposition on the entire site much less the first minute. This is an across the board average throughout industries. Some are much lower some much higher but it is not more than a minute. So selling them on your entire proposition within that time frame seems difficult to me. Can it happen? Sure. But these are not things I am making up in any way. It is things that are accepted industry facts. It is not at all about SEO most of the time. It is about once you have them there, what do they do? What is your bounce rate and how fast? Is the web page designed for kids or adults? You're a kids entertainer but who is really purchasing? Also since a HUGE portion of people consume this type of media from their phone or mobile devices how exactly do you get all that done so it can be conveyed properly on the on the phone screen in under a minute? Again not my statistics but from the industry itself. More than half of all web traffic in the US is mobile and has been since 2020. Retail stores and online shopping have a MUCH higher time on the pages for obvious reasons. Selling services not so much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts
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Well, what I have said, and others here have said, is that our websites do the job very well, regardless of general statistics, and most of the initial selling, if you do it well, done before they contact us. Or after the initial contact they go back and spend more time on the site and then get sold more or less. Then we can customize or upsell, build relationships or whatever by phone or email, text. The SEO gets your foot in the door, and then your website and personal relationships, emailing more info, answering questions and asking questions (question based selling),etc can take it from there. General industry statistics are helpful, but what really matters online is what works for us, not for the zillion things on the web, we don't sell hardware or toothpaste or lawncare. Yes, Danny is right about how many of us (and hopefully not me) sell on the features too much compared to the benefits. I think building relationships and having phone conversations is great, and generally, if done well, combined with a good website/social media, is the most effective way of doing things. But a more streamlined approach, for whatever reasons you have, can work well also.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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On Oct 17, 2022, danfreed wrote: To be very clear I have never said this was not true. I have said it is an adult decision made by adults. Having a discussion in no way (Contrary to what Tom wants everyone to believe.) means I think there is only one way to do things or I am somehow putting you down for the way you do things. Here there are lots of ways to do things and you have chosen one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts
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On Oct 17, 2022, Dannydoyle wrote: See Danny, it's wisecracks like that start the derailments, so please try and keep all those to yourself for a change. Anyway, forget that and let me try and explain something to you. I’ve already said it and some real professionals here have backed me up on it. Parents and Kids will spend a lot of time on a well thought out kidshow website. Nobody here as said they depend solely on the website to do ALL their selling. That’s you doing that. These guys work hard and in different ways getting people to go to the site. Sure some will just google magician and end up there. Some will like what they see, some will not. So what. Next. Danny, you really have to have a good understanding of the client, in this case, its kids and parents, to see how it all fits together. We have three of the best in the business posting here now, please don’t hound them to death and run em off. Let's all learn together. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts
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On Oct 17, 2022, TomBoleware wrote: What about this? Do YOU have to keep this to YOURSELF Tom? Or do you just forget that you said this because you have a bad memory? Don't play like you somehow are not doing this stuff. Tom. I don't want YOU involved in modern marketing discussions of magic and performance because YOU ARE NOT DOING IT and you admitted it on that thread that NOBODY WANTED TO RESPOND TO YOU ON. Take a hint Tom. Now you can take the thread out into the swamp and drown it as you ALWAYS DO because your imaginary friends just won't let you stop posting. You will stomp your feet and just keep going because you can not let anyone have a meaningful discussion. You are a last word kind of guy and will just not stop. We all know how this movie ends. You're right Tom. I have never once met a child's parent. Oh lord do you believe that? It is just that you are such a wonderful example of the Dunning Kruger effect it is hard to get angry with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect There is a link so you can understand the point. Will you stop now? No going on and on for 10 plus pages? Just stop? I am going to guess absolutely not.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3171 Posts
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On Oct 17, 2022, danfreed wrote: Well said Dan. Let me add that it's also a good time for the parent to do something special for the child's friends. A good selling point to throw in too
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts
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On Oct 17, 2022, Dannydoyle wrote: I can accept that MOST people spend 45 seconds on my web site. I know this because a large percentage of my email inquiries are people asking many questions that are clearly answered on my web site. Or even more often, it is the people that call and say, “I just came across your web site I have some questions,” and all the questions they have are clearly spelled out on the web site. Although I must admit I get a little frustrated by this sometimes, I understand. There’s a certain type of customer that prefers to do business like this. I make it clear on my web site to feel free to call, email or text with questions. I will do what is necessary. No problem. Still, there are those customers that will obviously spend much more time on my web site. I know that because of how they’ve filled out my booking form. They’ve checked to make sure I’m available, I’m local to them, they know my price and all that’s included in that price. They have no questions! All I have to do is send them a confirmation letter. I will also compliment them on taking the time to look at my web site and navigate it so successfully. (See, I’m starting to develop a relationship with them. LOL) Whether a prospect spends 45 seconds or 10-minutes on a web site its important to capture their attention and give them what they are looking for. In my opinion these are the top pieces of information they are looking for: What do they look like? Are they professional and trustworthy? Do they perform in my area? Are they available on the date of my event? Can I afford them? How do I contact them or book them? It seems to me that we should try to design our web site so they can answer these questions in 45 seconds, or at least have positive answers to the first few questions to compel them to spend more time on the web site or call with questions.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Posted: Oct 17, 2022 05:31 pm 
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