I'm thinking, for those who like originality, to use the premise from physics called Schrodinger's Cat for the patter to an effect that would be like the old Living and Dead Tests. One billet had the name of a dead person and the others were names of living people. The "psychic" found the dead name. Here could be maybe half of the billets are for a dead cat and half for living cats. Maybe there are just 2 billets. One for living and one for dead. The actual experiment is more that whichever is called for, that is what is found.

Another whole approach would be to use Bank Nite as a starting point. So, generally speaking, it is a matter of having half the containers have one result and half the other...and the idea is to pick the correct one after one result is called for (Living or Dead).

Another approach...and I'm hoping this is good for a Halloween style presentation (Perhaps there are methods from the Bizarre world that would help here) is to have a stuffed animal in one container and a shredded version of the same kind of stuffed animal.

To be true to the physics thought experiment, it is more adaptable to double envelopes with one side having a card that says "living" and one side a card that says "dead". I think that more than one envelope would make possible repeating this. This is perhaps a platform trick...not a mingling close up trick where they might grab the envelopes.

The patter is to the effect that until the envelope or container is opened, that the cat is both living or dead, or is it "neither" - ? - and doesn't finalize the end situation until the container is opened.

I don't really have THE definitive method for this yet.

I'm now thinking that for Schrodinger's Cat to use cartoons of a live can or a dead cat on playing cards. Even print out your cartoons that you get your friend that can cartoon to do - which you then scan and print out on peel-and-stick paper and put on one side of double-blank card stock. Then it could turn into a card trick, or with coin envelopes, into a card and envelopes trick. The name itself is catchy for a magic or mental magic trick.

Jon Allen has a great effect based on Schrödinger’s Cat. It is called Schrödinger’s Card and is in his book “Experience” and on disc 3 of his “Connection” dvd set.

That's great! Since this is Secret Sessions, could you tell us more-such as maybe lay out the effect? Please do. This goes to show that when we think we've come up with a new idea, probably someone already had it...which makes it hard to keep going sometimes. Thanks again Poof Daddy and best wishes to you. GW

Quick version - have card signed, go to wallet, pull out envelope & hold up to light to show shadow of a card inside. Give envelope to spec with instructions NOT to open. It is later up to them to ultimately see if it is in fact, their signed card (and it is). Jon does this at weddings & corporate events and puts the envelope into a picture frame just a bit bigger than the envelope for a great giveaway.

Presentation is up to performer, relay the story of Schrödinger’s Cat and compare it to the card (in the envelope) (in the frame) and leave it to them to decide if they open it or keep it as a memory of wonder. You can also put contact info in the envelope (or the frame) so if they do open it and realize it was their card all the time, rebooking is pretty much a given (I would think).

Have you actually done this? My question is, what kind of wallet? Is it one of those big Larry Jennings wallets I used to have? It would have to be big enough to hold an envelope. I have coin envelopes that hold a card. They are opaque. In your opinion does this seem do-able?

Meanwhile, mine - I'm thinking of printing stickers of cartoons of dead and alive cats and making up (perhaps) a Svengali Deck of alternating cards made from double-blank card stock. Cut long and short.

But you certainly have me thinking. Old Annemann work has things like 2 step rubber cement and things like that. Anyway, I guess you watched the video and feel it is do-able.

So, in my idea, every other card is short and the alternates are long. The shorts are cartoons printed out on peel and stick stock and stuck on the cards so every other one is a dead cat and every alternating one is a live cat (cartoons). The handling is to spread through the deck and show some are alive and some are dead.

Square and do a riffle "stop" and at that point cut the upper group (above where you were stopped) to the bottom. Then ask if they want "alive" or "dead"? Depending what they say, you either lift and show a double...very easy with short and long (Svengali) type cards. Or conversely you lift and show just 1 card.

If you want, you can do the riffle type action and show all the cats are dead, or do the face-up version of the riffle and show them all alive.

I think this is the best solution for my taste and ability, to this problem that has been rattling around in my head...in such a way as to be a practical do-able commercial trick. Luckily I am a cartoonist. You'll need to have a friend draw these for you, or maybe you can find on-line. Enjoy.

P.s. needless to say you can explain the Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment while you explain quantum uncertainty. Also of interest is to go through the thread to see the stages of thinking that this thing went through from the inception. When you first get an idea, you have no idea what form it will eventually take if it will be a workable thing. David Roth used to estimate that by the time you get the thing made up and test it out on some real people until you have it "honed", that that will take about 2 years. "You have to live with the trick a while" he used to say.

I have not performed it. Just knew of it and the background of it from both his book and the Dvd set. As for a wallet that will take an envelope, the newer TCC “Into” wallet comes with some envelopes (which you can make more yourself or buy from them) for a card to wallet (to sealed envelope) and they are not big wallets like a BKM would be. Just a tad larger that an everyday bifold wallet (I own 2 of the “Into” wallets as they have a couple different CTW as well as a couple different peek functions. It is a worker.

This is very useful information. Thank you so much for sharing and I didn't realize there is this new work on card to wallet in an envelope, no less. The card to a coin purse is what I do and learned it from Roland Rochelle who was the master of it. Card selected, I added giving the spectator a torn corner after they Sign it, lose it supposedly in the deck, and then do a Mercury Fold and go to the pocket and load the folded card in the coin purse. Come out of pocket with the purse after giving them the deck to hold. It is so fast, but that's the only one I use any more, which means I'm not keeping up with card to wallet. I'm sure the readers will learn a lot from this. There are people who view this thread without posting, but they're the ones this is all for. Thanks again.

If I recall correctly, there have been a few card to wallet “wallets” thru the years that allow for a load to a “sealed” envelope. Most as I recall, were marketed envelopes. I don’t remember what wallets or envelopes but I do remember seeing more. I mention the “INTO” wallet by TCC only because I liked it so much I bought a backup.

As an alternative, although probably not as strong would be to load a card into a sealed envelope and force the same card. Either vanish the force card from the deck via S.O.H. Or a strip of double stick tape on a card back you could adhere the force card to (to “vanish” it) show that their card has vanished from the deck (after some clever presentation) only to tell them it has now appeared in the envelope. Same basic deal as before but the card will not be signed if they decide to open it later. (Maybe write the name of the card on the envelope as you present them with the dilemma (to open or not) then they will “remember” which card it was if they ever open it (hours to years later) yet they will remember that it was missing from the face up deck “after” they had the envelope in hand.

The signature is stronger than with no signature. I can see if someone perfected that method that it would be strong. In my thread Creating New Magic in the Secret Sessions section a little farther on, I describe my way of making a duplicate card and signature...which for me was easy but others may think would be hard. Check it out if you get the chance. It is near the end of the thread, so go to the end and back up from there which is easier than wading through the whole thread. You sound like you are pretty hip to the scene. I was heavy into cards but lately switched to coins and mentalism. I still remember a lot of cards.

I'm surprised I didn't think of this before. Buddha Papers is a great old trick. Have a cartoon of a cat in one side (one set) of the papers, and basically the same drawing with X's for the eyes (meaning dead) on the other side. Also a Himber Wallet would work, and any of the double ended envelopes available would be good. Sorry it took so long.

The explanation of the thought experiment would still be the secret to putting this across.

Though Christopher Taylor has closed shop, he had a Schrodinger Cat piece of mentalisim. A wonderful routine...
Is it black? Is it white? Is it alive? Is it dead? When the prediction was opened and read, it matched.

Nice to know. Try to think of what you would do with it yourself. But, anyway, since this is Secret Sessions, and I don't have access to the Christopher Taylor, can you share more? What is black or white? Cards? Double envelope?

What I like to do is see what I myself can come up with. I thought my Svengali idea was pretty clever. I'd still like to have a box and a stuffed animal would be either intact or in shreds.

To me the game is a choice between working on my own creativity with my time, or hunting for what other people are doing, and I chose the former. The risk with my way, of course, is that someone else has already thought of it. The Buddha Papers is an interesting method, as is the Himber Wallet, as is some of Meir's double ended envelopes.

I mean, you could do it with playing cards. Is it red or black. With coins in little boxes with lids...is it heads or tails. There could be me many applications. I'm not claiming to be the only one who worked on the problem (what to do with the Schrodinger's Cat) that I found in a physics book, not a magic book. Then I started playing with what would Gregg Webb do with it as a magic trick.

Lately I started thinking about a cartoon cat that is alive and a cartoon cat that is dead with X's for eyes because I am also a cartoonist.

I just realized this isn't secret sessions. I'm going to start a Schrodinger's Cat on Special Sessions. Look over there. GW