I posted an offer for fellow mentalists to make some extra cash. Some of you are participating in the program.

Can one of the Moderators tell me why the post was deleted. I would especially love to hear from the one who deleted it.

Gerry,

Maybe they wanted the gig themselves.

Best,
Ray

Hey Ray,

That was my second post that was removed here. Doesn't it stink that one of the moderators feels all mighty when they hit the "DELETE" button, but they don't have the courage to step up and admit that they were the one to do it?

Gerry

Hey... I've been sent so many PMs for "having to edit" my comments... one "excuse" has been "so as to maintain the family safe reputation" of the forum... You'd think the puritans had taken over once again... ignoring that whole thing about Free Speech and none Censorship in this country???

But hey! We all live in our own virtual reality here in Internet Land.

Gerry,

I forgot to welcome you to the Cafe. It's great to see you here.

I had one of my posts edited and one completely deleted but in both cases had full understanding sent to me by PM about the reasons.

Do you have a PM message flashing just under your name at the top of this page? It would be in red and blinking. Perhaps, as a new member, you didn't recognize that as being a Personal Message for you. That's usually where the explanations come.

Best Always,
Ray

I have had messages removed because of someone else being deleted and as such, my replies were removed too, however, when asked about what you carry in your wallet, I replied that I have a trick in print about a card to condom (which is actually just in the packet) that I used to do in comedy clubs. It was a serious post but apparently there is a prude on the board that does not understand that there is nothing wrong with either the word "condom" nor with the context of the post.

It is funny that the ones that cry out for the need to censor are usually the only prudes that do not live in the real world nor understand the way the world really is. They also do not realize how many magicians they just might lose due to censorship, as several other boards and their moderators learned.

Censorship is acceptable when it is needed to avoid harrasment or absolutely crude language but when you are on a magic board and things are there pertaining to the art...censorship is wrong. We do exist within free countries that promote freedom of speech do we not?

PSIncerely Yours,
a very disgruntled,
Paul Alberstat

"I have a trick in print about a card to condom "

The problem is not the condom it is the card trick
they don't allow cards in the mentalism section.


I hope it was all a mistake with Jerry posting.
Or that he offered to much money for the help.

Lior Manor

Be careful about what you write on this subject. I know of others who got BANNED from the cafe for expressing views like this. I would hate for that to happen to any of you.

Blurr

I had one of my links deleted, which was in response to a question someone had asked for. The staff sent me a rather nice PM explaining why it was deleted. I did not agree 100% with the reason, but I could understand the thought behind it. The staff here has always been good about explaining the reasons for being deleted as pointed out by Ray (Hello Ray).

I would hate to see this wonderful cafe become like some many other boards, both public and private, where it becomes really nasty and mean and little good can be come of it!

On a side note, I am sorry, I missed the post about the card to condom, that sounds really funny!

Kevin

It may be a case of too many cooks. There are a LOT of moderators on this board which leads to occasionally erratic officiating.

"One mans meat..."

Apologies to Paul.


As far as Gerry's posts being deleted: maybe someone is offended by his "offer" of a paltry 20 bucks for material he plans to use on television. Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't been Flamed to ashes...

Sn!per

My error guys. Ray was kind enough to point out the PM Message under my name. I never saw it before. The two deleted posts were explained by the moderators.

There is Censorship on this board ?? I did not know. I have an idea !!!! For all those opposed to this, give me a few days !

Gerry,
What, basically, was the reason for the deletion?

Caman

I second Sir T:

"I would hate to see this wonderful Cafe become like so many other boards, both public and private, where it becomes really nasty and mean and little good can be come of it!"

A lot of work goes into running this board and maintaining its "nice place to be" image. My hat is off to the people who do that work, both technically and editorially. I don't own this board, I just enjoy it!

Hmmm... probably means I've be invited to leave soon. Let's face it, I have some of the most controversial opinions in mentalism and am far from being "Politically Correct"... I loathe most "fraternal orders" for various reasons (politics being one of the biggest)... in short, I don't play well with authoritarians... I mean... I don't play well with others

I know that instances have occured in which I've "hidden" profanity via the classic Sunday Morning comic strip mode e.g. @#$%, etc. leaving the appropriate first and last letters in place for said entandra... though accepted in most forums, it is far removed here. Too, I've noted an extreme sense of paranoia about law suits e.g. defamation of character type retaliation... A peculiar thing in that I've not encountered such concerns, nor heard of any kind of successful action taken agains any other net forum. In short, each individual is responsible for sharing his/her "own" opinions and, as the classic disclaimer goes IT IS NOT NESSASARILY (SP) THE OPINION OF THE STATION OR MANAGEMENT... end of story.

Said disclaimer has protected most Tv, Radio Stations and Print media for DECADES... and to my knowledge, is a given within the forum realms of the net... especially if it is stated within bi-laws, rules & regs, or whatever you want to call the "agreement & understanding" part of being a participant.

Besides, if folks think things are harsh here, they'd die if they ever got onto the Shadow Network or some of the other "you best have leather armored skin to be here" type groups... They can get vicious (but lots of fun, once you understand the candor!)

If the Puritan attitude is going to rule and run shod over what it posted here, perhaps a warning need be placed in the prelude (as in front page) for folks to read BEFORE they sign up e.g. THIS SITE IS CENSORED IN ACCORDANCE TO THE WHIM OF WHOMEVER DEEMS IT THEIR RIGHT TO GET RID OF OR ALTER WHAT YOU SAY BASED ON THEIR BELIEFS AND "MAYBERRY" PERSPECTIVES ABOUT LIFE, MAGIC AND HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO. IF YOU AREN'T OF PUREST CONSCIENCE AND UNABLE TO PRESENT PERSPECTIVES "ACCEPTABLE" TO OUR WAY OF SEEING THINGS... GO AWAY!

Did I just drive the final nail into my coffin?

Perhaps... I hope not. The cafe is an excellent place of exchange and though I've exaggerrated the censorship issue in what I'm saying here, I've done so for a very important reason -- to help ALL involved (moderators and posters) to think about our "rights" for expressive freedom without censorship and perhaps, encourage them to remember historically, what happens every time such powers are abused.

One last thing... I'm not stating this in anger, regarding the handful of my posts that have been reworded or deleted. Though I find this rather "silly" (especially for reasons noted in the PMs) in the adult world or "professionals" my concern (and the reason for this soap box schpill) is that it seems to be a bit "out of hand" even by the say so and experience of others... some of whom are prime contributors.

We all need to "think about it" (I'm including myself) and find a solution other than the classic moderators action of "It's my board and if you dont' play may way, you can't play at all."

At the forum I co-moderate in such actions are of group mind and typically discussed before any action is taken... but then, we have about half as many moderators, each with limited control within their field of specialty.

Just a thought...

Darmoe,
Though I can appreciate your anger about being deleted or edited on a board (sort of like being 86'd from a bar after supposedly having "too many"), it's hard to totally empathize without the whole story (the exact reasons by the moderators with your exact message).

This goes the same for Gerry's post here. I would like to know what was the reason for the deletion. Obviously we could all learn something here.

Actually, I have a suspicion as to why and the moderators reasons may be grounded.

I suppose Gerry could shed some light on this as well.

Caman

The Private Message that was sent to me about the Deleted watch post is as follows:

"This is to inform you that your last post on the mentalism watches has been deleted, as you revealed far too much of the methods. Remember, that is not allowed in the open forums. Please refrain from divulging methods. "

I, for one, don't think I gave away too much. This is a prop we are talking about. In order to perform the effect, you need the prop.

It is not as if, you are selling a big routine that will change your act, only to purchase it to biscover you just paid for a nail writer, and I gave away that BIG SECRET.

My post told about the Pro's and Con's of each watch.

Not my board, so you can do as you wish. I respect your authority to.

I must xxxxx admit, I too have been xxxxxx moderated in the past but had the reasons explained and could usually understand what the xxxxx it was all about. On the plus side, the atmosphere is generally better here, and since this is the largest magic forum on the web Steve and the gang must be doing something right!!!

Paul.

>I notice some of the guys griping the most are the ones who are always causing trouble and the reason that those sites fold or people leave. <

I've always heard it best to "not buy into the guilt" when something like this comes about, but I do want to make it clear that, though I am very much controversial and frequently take the "Devil's" position on certain things, I've NEVER been asked to leave a forum, nor have I ever been directly "chastized" for anything I've shared. Heck, the guys from MoMM asked me to contribute to Visions

Why do I do it?

Aside form a very real personal position on certain "issues" I will frequently take an opposing side simply for the sake of a.) Learning more; b.) To help others wiegh perspectives they may not have previously taken into consideration.

The "edits" made here @ the Cafe have carried the excuse of "Family Image" and a very puritanical sense of legal paranoia (as mentioned). I'm concerned about the Censor's pen anywhere it comes into play... I'm not angry or bitter about what was removed or changed given the circumstances... just find it peculiar and waaaay outside the norm... not something I've encounter to many times any where else.

Heck, certain so-called "moderators" of noted forums are so laxed that they allow a handful of born again bullies chase off anyone that knows what they're talking about when it comes to bizarre and hard core psi work... kindof ironic when you consider that said moderator is a noted Mentalist

Anywho... that's where I stand (for what it's worth.)

Gerry,

Were both posts that were deleted on the same topic? I thought you had one about passing on gigs that you couldn't do.

I had one deleted yesterday because my discussion obliquely pointed to a way to circumvent a policy here. I didn't mean it that way, I was simply passing on my views on an issue and that act itself was interpreted as trying to bypass a policy.

Best,
Ray

Now I'm totally confused!

I thought Gerry was talking about his post that was asking people to research ideas for him and that he would pay for, in fact this thread by Gerry starts:

"I posted an offer for fellow mentalists to make some extra cash. Some of you are participating in the program. Can one of the Moderators tell me why the post was deleted."

Now Gerry provided an example of a moderator's "power to delete" that has to do with "watches".

Gerry, I think you picked the wrong example.

-Caman