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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
So very true in everything you said. Also, what happens when, as you say "get over themselves," you quickly become elevated to operating on another level. It is that level where things begin to change. Same for magicians - at the surface level and in basic consumer markets things like Fedora is and so many others are experiencing is typical and the perception of "magician" means the stereotypical lower common form which many get turned off by, but once you get to that elevated level it is completely different and you gain more respect, status, are more impressive and ultimately more confident and successful. It is there that higher rates, better gigs, and greater opportunities begin.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Why is it you think you are the center of her universe? Everyone in science is wrong and the world revolves around you?
My lord any number of a million things could have happened the interim. The huge majority of them not bad. You go and assume that the two most likely things are bad. Again this is a very newbie mistake and basic sales 101. So what if she comes back and likes the idea of a magician, but hate being manipulated by used car salesman language?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 9, 2023, StephenRoy wrote: Quite well said. One more point. It is also very much about how they find you and what you are doing. I don’t work at places it do shows that might make someone confuse me with the stigma so feared.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Maybe worth saying, and I think often overlooked by the magician, especially the ones trying to book shows in a smaller market outside the children's market. Only a small percentage of the public has ever seen a live magic show. They don’t know what to expect. Most know about the birthday party magician or have seen a magician on tv. Their perception of a magician is you either do birthday parties, go on America's Got Talent, or maybe you are good enough to work in a place like Las Vegas.
I know some may not believe that, but just walk down your street and ask a few real people how many live magic shows they have seen in their lifetime. I think you will be surprised. And while you are at it, ask them to name a magician. If they can name one, the odds are good, it will be that Copperfield man or Houdini. If there is a problem with magicians, it's that they don’t think like normal people enough. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Lol, so you did a cold call and are getting antsy that she hasn't gotten back to you in two days? Oh Lord!
It's really hard to know for sure whats going on because we are dealing with such vagueities here. We don't really know how you found this venue or lead? We don't really know about this girl from the venue? We don't really know the venue's interests? We don't really know how the meeting came about, we don't really know what you offered, and we don't really know a lot about the venue as far as what they do and what your proposed and were hoping to get out of it? We don't really know what was the specific outcome you were seeking? So many empty spaces. I'm glad you heard from her but now that puts the ball back in your court. so, now what? |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2023, TomBoleware wrote: So many magicians also do not do "a show" which lends even more to the common perceptions. |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
It was four days actually, still not a long time.
Although, once it passes 48 hours without a response, the odds of getting one drops below 10%. Or at least that's what the marketers tell me. the one about my emails not going through is probably a preferred explanation, servers sometimes block IPs for no apparent reason. Not at all saying it occurred, just that it's not terrible. Good questions mindpro, I'll answer all of them time permitting. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
What marketers tell you that? It is ridiculous in every market I work to expect a 48 hour turn around. Maybe this is true in your birthday party market I have no clue. I also doubt that is with an email from a cold call.
Again it is all about you. The world don’t work on your timeframe sorry. Before you even contacted her you should have had a plan for keeping contact. You’re just flying by the seat of your pants and it shows. You should have procedures in place and just fine those procedures. Basic business stuff and if you don’t have this maybe hit the pause button and get them in place.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 8, 2023, Fedora wrote: What? What? What? What "marketers are telling you that? Certainly not entertainment business/industry marketers. This tells me it either came from a magician's marketing course or book, or some conventional business nonsense, OR the online marketing world. In all cases, not even close for the entertainment industry. This makes me wonder why are you even doing this without the proper knowledge and education of entertainment business operations? It just seems crazy to me? This is not at all how entertainment business and entertainment business operations, especially entertainment sales works. Not even close. This leads us to the next very crucial and missing point. You as the entertainment business operator, should KNOW how they will respond EVEN BEFORE THEY DO if you are doing this properly with the proper knowledge and skills. I ALWAYS say "be careful who you listen to" and this is the exact reason why, as well as a great example. There is no knowledge or skills at work here. None at all. This is also a prime example of the default business model and someone attempting to market before they are ready to. When combined with a me-based perspective and foundation this is the worst scenario and formula for disaster. You are definitely listening to the wrong people. You said "the one about my emails not going through is probably a preferred explanation, servers sometimes block IPs for no apparent reason." This is more of you making assumptions and believing your own me-based BS, nothing based in reality or fact. Just theory of yours. To insure you emails got through and read you should have had her whitelist you right then and there before you left. Problem solved. Simple. Also a couple of times in this thread you have referred to the "industry" which was incorrect and was likely meant to be community. Industry and the community are two different things, just FYI. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
There is one more possibility and It is maybe it is more bad humor.
He also might be mixing up where he should apply that figure.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
No, that wasn't an attempt at humor, it was meant to be
somewhat snide to marketers though. Yes, that statistic definitely isn't meant for the entertainment industry, or community for that matter. I believe it was for online outreach companies or some such. As for me, I wait 7 days before I contact again usually, in this case I did so a day sooner. I have no recollection of where I got that from, but I'm sure it's not an entertainment standard. As for the whitelist suggestion, you're correct, I should have. I wasn't meaning for this topic to be about that contact specifically, although I have no problem continuing on the subject. I'm busy this morning, so I'll address it this afternoon. |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
As to "how I found the venue", I've been aware of it's presence for a while, it's
somewhat popular locally. "We don't know about this girl from the venue" unfortunately, I don't know much beyond what I wrote previously, she's co owner, I have no idea who the other owner is. "We don't know the venues interests" that's what I want to find out, most their business seems to come from rental of the venue, though they do have their own public events. The meeting came about by cold email. I haven't offered a specific number as of yet. As for what specifically I won't out of it, based on the schedule, numerous events regularly take place there, both weddings and other events. The goal here is to get on their preferred vendors list, if they have one, and to otherwise be presented to their clients. That's essentially it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
One way to do such a thing is to invite them to an even you at doing as guests. This way there is no risk to the venue as far as money. It shows you doing what you do and it shows what you can bring to them. It shows you a a a buddy working professional performer. It works wonderfully.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
Thanks for the tip Danny, I was considering volunteering time for one of
their public events. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Is that what you got from what I wrote?
Because I encourage you to invite them to an event you were being paid to work in order to showcase what you can do for them as a professional. I certainly never woods encourage anyone to volunteer for any event to do so. Bringing them to an event you are being paid to perform at shows you get money for doing so. Volunteering does the opposite.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 9, 2023, Dannydoyle wrote: Let me correct the typo fest here. “One way to do such a thing is to invite them to an event you are doing as guests. This way there is no risk to the venue as far as money. It shows you doing what you do and it shows what you can bring to them. It shows you a a a busy working professional performer. It works wonderfully.” Hopefully with the typos you don’t think I’m encouraging you to volunteer in some strange effort to show your a professional. Sorry for the confusion.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yeah, I'm not sure he truly knows what he can bring to them.
I will say I am glad Fedora is sharing with us and willing to stay here and allow this thread to progress forward, kudos to him. I'm not sure what he's taking form this but as we've all agreed, others are probably following and learning from this as well. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 9, 2023, Fedora wrote: Yeah that's pretty much what we already know and has been discussed. From what I'm understanding you had no real specific or purpose other than a source for picking up some random future bookings. This is very general in nature which the best you could get from them is some general response or interest. I see no call to action or offer that is specific and irresistible. I still don't see what is in it for them or what you are proposing for them. A few bucks for referring you? Their main business purpose is to get bookings at their event. I don't see anything you are offering them that aligns with their primary business or interest. I also see that what you are proposing creates extra effort and work for them (the people in the front line with their prospects and booking customers) and putting your business' fate in their hands to present your services through them will be very problematic to you and your business and, as I said extra work for them. I don't see the appeal at all. The problem with this, and actually the way most magicians conduct what they think is business is they are doing it from essentially a layman's perspective, which will relay not truly help either of you. I completely understand the possibilities of having a referral arrangement in place, as I at one time had 33 (maybe more) venues generating nearly 200-300 bookings annually for nice profitability for both of us. |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 746 Posts |
Thank you for clarifying Danny, I did misunderstand you.
Mindpro, would You be willing to elaborate on an approach that would better meet a venue needs? I'm not intentionally trying to make a deal one sided, if there's a more mutually beneficial approach, I would like to know it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You have to get past the “me” approach you refuse to give up. Literally that is the first step.
In reality I don’t think you have figured out what if in it for YOU yet. The point is you don’t know what it costs to operate that facility in order to put on what you want to. Once you have figured that much out then you have to be able to present them with something that will guarantee that plus more for the extra hassle of doing this. Just because a building is empty doesn’t mean it is reasonable to run. This was why I suggested them seeing you working at an event. This way they can see you being paid to bring people into places and have money being exchanged for services. Show them it working as opposed to trying to explain how it will hopefully work. Let it be as much their idea as yours. It puts you in a much more powerful position. It doesn’t seem as if you have any sort of plan. At this point you’re almost the dog who caught the car. He has no idea how to drive the thing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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