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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Countries without magic? (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Kevin Fortin
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I wonder if there are countries or cultures on Earth where our kind of magic is not practiced, either because it's prohibited or because it just wouldn't make sense in the context of whatever culture.
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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Tommy - hardly about "our kind of magic." But, perhaps Kevin will describe what he means by that term since folks in our culture cannot agree on what it 'magic' means.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Kevin Fortin
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Quote:
On Mar 11, 2023, funsway wrote:
Tommy - hardly about "our kind of magic." But, perhaps Kevin will describe what he means by that term since folks in our culture cannot agree on what it 'magic' means.

I just meant magic tricks rather than occult magic.
tommy
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Saudi Arabia lacks a penal code, making court decisions on whether a given act constitutes witchcraft completely dependent on the judge's discretion.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
tommy
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It seems that I am behind the times: https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/28/how-......re-stage

Wonders never cease.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Kevin Fortin
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To clarify, originally I was wondering if there were countries where trying to fool other people with magic tricks might be considered impolite or disrespectful or maybe even incomprehensible, in the context of that culture.
funsway
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"fool other people with magic tricks" has never been my objective in the U.S.A.

I have been in 32 other countries and would venture that "getting in people's face" without permission for any reason is considered impolite -
so, it may not be a matter of "inexplicable phenomenon" or what a culture considers to be impossible - but a function of how and when presented.

I have found that all cultures have a smiling view of an uncle pulling an object from a child's ear, but may frown on the "wanna see a card trick" invasion popular here.
A show announcing that conjuring for entertainment is usually OK since people can chose to attend or not. Mentalism, not so much.

But, most of my experience is now dated and the influence of social media unknown. Maybe people today do desire to be fooled beyond the evening news.

Not sure how you will find out, though since most people today seem to lie about what they feel about everything.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
critter
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I remember David Blaine having a difficult time in Haiti due to local superstitions about magic.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Kevin Fortin
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Quote:
On Mar 14, 2023, funsway wrote:
"fool other people with magic tricks" has never been my objective in the U.S.A.


Thank you for your reply, which might help me to further clarify my question.

How about this?

I wonder if there are cultures where the use of deception in magic tricks/effects for the sake of entertainment would be considered impolite or rude because of the use of deception?
funsway
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From my research, effect done "for entertainment" means the audience knows the performer is going to use artifice, guile, subterfuge and sneaky props to pretend at doing impossible things. Thus, there is no deception as the performer does exactly what he claims he will. The problem comes in when the performer claims to have special power or agency which is charlantry and even illegal in all these Untied States. The gray area is where the performer makes assumptions about what the observer knows or expects - more of a problem with a different culture or language. So, if tickets are sold for a magic performance, one can assume the audience is OK with pretend stuff - willing to be deceived if you prefer. Even strolling/street performances can be OK as folks can choose to gather and watch or not. Table hopping or assault type performances are more risky
I feel that anyone getting in my face uninvited is being rude, whether they are performing, preaching, selling or championing some cause. They are usually being deceptive too, but the problem is lack of permission. Without a mutual understanding of what is about to occur, there is always risk of "being impolite." In many cultures it is impolite to address a female directly when a man is present. So, asking a woman to be a volunteer might be a poor choice. Also, touching. Thus, it is the nature of the actions of a magic act that may be a problem. Some magic effect might be seen as violating a ritual or tabu, again, not because there is trickery involved.
Consider that we all engage in trickery and deception every day. I wear eye glasses - a trick to correct a physical fault. People wear make-up, lift shoes, push up bras and fake hair. Folks cheat of resumes, taxes and rental applications. Does this provide a sort of implied permission? What about other cultures? If I were planning on performing in another country I would do some research and find out. Even then, I would start off with an effect that is obviously sleight of hand and well known to give any upset observer a chance to escape.

As an aside - one of the best effects in any culture is to claim you are going to use trickery and then do not. Once people give you permission to "fool them" or "demonstrate the impossible for fun," then the truth or simple science will come across as astonishing. Is that a double deception?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
tommy
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How do they know?

“A conjurer is not a juggler; he is an actor playing the part of a magician; an artist whose fingers have more need to move with deftness than with speed. I may even add that where sleight-of-hand is involved, the quieter the movement of the performer, the more readily will the spectators be deceived.”

-Robert Houdin, Secrets of Conjuring and Magic, 1868


A real magician or sorcerer is an evocator: somebody who calls on the concealed powers of the Gods, etcetera. When a conjurer waves his wand, and or uses strange gestures and or words, to apparently make things move mysteriously from one place or condition to another, he is playing the role of an evocator.

Therein lies the problem: the fundamentalists, who believe magic really exists and are monotheists, see anybody who performs, or who claims to perform, or who pretends to perform evocation, as an evil occultist, who invokes diabolical spirits and sees him as a blasphemer. Performing magic in the land of the fundamentalists is playing with fire. The men who believe that magic really exists are the men who burn witches.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ChrisPayne
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Quote:
On Mar 12, 2023, Kevin Fortin wrote:
I wonder if there are countries or cultures on Earth where our kind of magic is not practiced, either because it's prohibited or because it just wouldn't make sense in the context of whatever culture.

Attempting to answer the question asked. I don't think there is a geographical region in the world where conjuring is absent - a quick look at the FISM website gives a good idea
https://fism.org/members/

However there are definitely several religions and cultures where it is banned, discouraged, frowned upon - including at my local, rather evangelical church in the UK. Some people choose not to understand the distinction between conjuring and sorcery /witchcraft and there have been executions by ISIS and in Saudi Arabia
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18503550
https://seattlemagician.com/Blog/Street-Magic
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