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Skinny Fatts
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[quote]On 2004-07-08 15:57, RichHead wrote:

OK, so maybe he's not the the world's greatest card magician, but then are any of you?


One's talent is not relative to that of others. Someone is either talented or not, regardless of the skill level of others.

Fatts
iamslow
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Mabee Tara Hall is cleverly disguised as Paul Gordon??
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
JackTrumper
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What is the overall goal you guys wish to acheiev by posting who is better then who.

One, this argument will continue to the end of time as it can never be proven right or wrong.

Two, whats the point of arguing, who cares who is better then who. Every has a different opinion and attitude towards everything.

I could go on with more but whats the point...people will probably continue to post bad things about magicians ten times better then they will ever be....(I'll stop there because I know what to argue and what not to)
Do coffins have lifetime guarantees..?
Paul H
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I have a horrible suspicion that Tara Hall is, in fact, Paul Gorden in a dress.

Regards,

Paul H
orchid666
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Met paul a couple of times now.nice guy.
as for the effects,depends what your into.some will impress you,some will not,same as anyone elses material.
easy ace estimation,psychotronic rides again,and no pocket transpo are real killer effects.i can only urge you to check them out.
Werner G. Seitz
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You guys wouldn't believe, how many good cardworkers/performers are out there!
Ppl, most never heared of..

To make a point, how many ever have heared of Daniel Rhod, a frenchman !
When talking about frenchman, most ppl are talking about Bernard Bilis or Dominique Duvier.

Both of the above are very good, great performers, but Daniel Rhod is the smoothest cardworker I've ever seen..and that was way back in 1976 in Vienna..and I later meet him at Ken Brookes Magic Place whilst we both where passing through.

To se him doing Derek Dingles *Too many cards* -routine was seeing real magic!
The cards where not *handled* but seem to have a life of their own in his hands..I've never ever seen anything like this again..

Thing is, I dabbled with that routine too at that time and seing him doing it, was almost giving up magic after that experience..

Not even Derek himslef could come close to his outstanding handling..

Daniel of course did other routines as smooth as anything, but as I happend to also play with this, this routine stood out exceptionally..

It is impossible to say, this or that magician is *best*, as there are far too many great -in this case- cardworkers around doing exceptional well cardhandling..also one simply can't have seen them all.

Some are well known/famous and those have been seen by most fellow carddabblers..ppl like Daryl..no doubt he is outstandingly great in everything he does with card..I've seen him life, so I can judge..

But, as mentioned, there are others around not too well known even in magic circles, one of them is Daniel Rhod and I would bet almost anything, that he would surpass anybody else in the entire world, re his handling of Derk Dingles *Too many cards*..

To be quite honest.. a question re who is the *best magician* in any field, be it cards, coins, whatever, is actullay a stupid task to even speculate about, because there are sooooooooooooo many who are outstandingly great!

They all have their specialities and some even excel in presentation...but one can't compare them..try to compare the one and only David Williamson with anybody else..you can't!

That guy is in a class for himself and the reason he is, is not only TALENT, but that guy has worked all venues from childhood, before *real* people..and that shows up..

Ppl like - oh lets not mention names- that do cardwork very well, would never succed before a living audience... so to make my point VERY clear, also some might dislike this, my opinion is a question re who *is the best* is outstandingly stupid..sorry, but these are my honest thoughts.

At the FISM-convention in Paris 1979, there was a close-up gala, where amongst others we saw a performance of Derek Dingle and Albert Goshman..in the same show..

Now Derek hadn't any audience appeal at all, his sleights where flawless, but he didn't get through to the public at all..he even did *cough* to cover a move, his presentation simply was bad..

Albert Goshman however took the audience by storm and had them on the palm of his hand..he got outstandingly well responce and that was quite the contrary with Derek Dingle..
Derek didn't put a finger wrong, but he simply just was a technician and the ppl didn't like him at all, even if he at that time was well known and *famous*..
So one simply couldn't compare these 2 performers in any way at all..
Goshman was great
Dingle simply felt through..

The answer to that sily question has to be, there are many, for me and the standard *I* represent, far too many..one can't even touch their socks!

But, in a way, this is as it has to be..those guys eat, dream and sleep magic almost ever since they where born..and they went out and did it, before paying audiences, time after time again, so it is not without reason they are that good, still one can't compare one with the other..their style/presentation, effects aso. are differenet and equally exciting in most cases..

So pls, STOP posting the same topic over and over again re *WHO IS THE BEST*..

I've seen this topic here a couple of times.and ppl are arguing forth and back..save your time..there is NO answer to that (silly) question, because one can't compare an olympic athlet by using a point-system with a magician..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
disgruntledpuffin
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Personally,and this is just my opinion, I think paul gordon is brilliant. I have card magic companion and nocturnal creations, and they are two of my all time favourites. paul makes his living performing card magic and as a result his routines are practical and entertaining to laypeople. yes many of his routines are variations of existing tricks but I feel that in most cases they are improvements.failing that, he makes an existing routine more practical to perform in a strolling situation.when a proffesional card man like paul talks I listen, because the tricks have been honed down from real world experience.
jezza
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Quote:
On 2004-12-28 07:44, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
You guys wouldn't believe, how many good cardworkers/performers are out there!
Ppl, most never heared of..

To make a point, how many ever have heared of Daniel Rhod, a frenchman !
When talking about frenchman, most ppl are talking about Bernard Bilis or Dominique Duvier.

Both of the above are very good, great performers, but Daniel Rhod is the smoothest cardworker I've ever seen..and that was way back in 1976 in Vienna..and I later meet him at Ken Brookes Magic Place whilst we both where passing through.

To se him doing Derek Dingles *Too many cards* -routine was seeing real magic!
The cards where not *handled* but seem to have a life of their own in his hands..I've never ever seen anything like this again..

Thing is, I dabbled with that routine too at that time and seing him doing it, was almost giving up magic after that experience..

Not even Derek himslef could come close to his outstanding handling..

Daniel of course did other routines as smooth as anything, but as I happend to also play with this, this routine stood out exceptionally..

It is impossible to say, this or that magician is *best*, as there are far too many great -in this case- cardworkers around doing exceptional well cardhandling..also one simply can't have seen them all.

Some are well known/famous and those have been seen by most fellow carddabblers..ppl like Daryl..no doubt he is outstandingly great in everything he does with card..I've seen him life, so I can judge..

But, as mentioned, there are others around not too well known even in magic circles, one of them is Daniel Rhod and I would bet almost anything, that he would surpass anybody else in the entire world, re his handling of Derk Dingles *Too many cards*..

To be quite honest.. a question re who is the *best magician* in any field, be it cards, coins, whatever, is actullay a stupid task to even speculate about, because there are sooooooooooooo many who are outstandingly great!

They all have their specialities and some even excel in presentation...but one can't compare them..try to compare the one and only David Williamson with anybody else..you can't!

That guy is in a class for himself and the reason he is, is not only TALENT, but that guy has worked all venues from childhood, before *real* people..and that shows up..

Ppl like - oh lets not mention names- that do cardwork very well, would never succed before a living audience... so to make my point VERY clear, also some might dislike this, my opinion is a question re who *is the best* is outstandingly stupid..sorry, but these are my honest thoughts.

At the FISM-convention in Paris 1979, there was a close-up gala, where amongst others we saw a performance of Derek Dingle and Albert Goshman..in the same show..

Now Derek hadn't any audience appeal at all, his sleights where flawless, but he didn't get through to the public at all..he even did *cough* to cover a move, his presentation simply was bad..

Albert Goshman however took the audience by storm and had them on the palm of his hand..he got outstandingly well responce and that was quite the contrary with Derek Dingle..
Derek didn't put a finger wrong, but he simply just was a technician and the ppl didn't like him at all, even if he at that time was well known and *famous*..
So one simply couldn't compare these 2 performers in any way at all..
Goshman was great
Dingle simply felt through..

The answer to that sily question has to be, there are many, for me and the standard *I* represent, far too many..one can't even touch their socks!

But, in a way, this is as it has to be..those guys eat, dream and sleep magic almost ever since they where born..and they went out and did it, before paying audiences, time after time again, so it is not without reason they are that good, still one can't compare one with the other..their style/presentation, effects aso. are differenet and equally exciting in most cases..

So pls, STOP posting the same topic over and over again re *WHO IS THE BEST*..

I've seen this topic here a couple of times.and ppl are arguing forth and back..save your time..there is NO answer to that (silly) question, because one can't compare an olympic athlet by using a point-system with a magician..

I totally agree with everything you said .There are card workers, magicians who are superb but maybe not so good on the business side of things promotion etc of which is the key to being noticed by everyone (most of the magicians we know are just because they are on teach in vids etc ) and not all of us want to write a book.
my answer to who is best is simple he is best at what he does and hes best at what he does (if that makes sense)
Pete Biro
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I hate to repeat this, and especially since Derek isn't here to respond... but at a party one night (at Dingle's home) he and Scott York did a lot of incredible, technically awesome magic. Then, as I was there, Derek asked me to do something. I had NO PROPS, none of my stuff with me... BUT ... I did some simple card stuff and a bit of Jay Marshall style Table Crap...

Later Derek said to me, something like, "I don't get it... Scott and I did some of the best card magic there is, but you KILLED the audience with 'nothing' -- and we didn't get much audience reactions at all..."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
bishthemagish
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I think that what Pete Biro just wrote in the Café is great. The public doesn't seem to care how advanced the magic is. They only want to be entertained...

Do a routine with the mental photo deck or a second deal. To the public it doesn't matter as long as it is entertaining... And fun to watch...

One of the hardest things I feel is - is to take all that advanced magic and then try to make it entertaining to the public. That is as hard to do as it is to learn the advance magic.

Two of the few that do well with that is Ricky Jay and Bill Malone. Two more would be Tony Picasso and Rich Crowley... Making them laugh and entertaining them at the same time is a very hard thing to do with advnaced magic...

Also who is the best or the greatest comes down to a judgement of who a person likes... And that is a personal judgement call by only one person...

I say they are all great - get the money!!!!
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blendobag2
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Gettign the money is right.
irishguy
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Quote:
I don't see what "new" things Lorayne and such are bringing to their tiny variations.


Are you kidding?

Try Lorayne's Close-up card magic. Now I agree that most everyone steals a little from others and redesigns it for him/herself, but the act of redesigning it is important. The great writers did that. Lorayne being one of them. You can't just repackage someone else's moves without changing them in any real notable way and pass it off as original.
paddywagon
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To be sure, I agree with the Irishman..what he says above is perfeckly logical in every way but the other one.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2004-12-28 15:49, bishthemagish wrote:

Two of the few that do well with that is Ricky Jay and Bill Malone. Two more would be Tony Picasso and Rich Crowley... Making them laugh and entertaining them at the same time is a very hard thing to do with advnaced magic...
I heartfully second Glenns opinion re Ricky Jay and Bill Malone, I've seen both working, these guys are not only great technicians, but outstandingly great entertainers and they know exactly what they do..

Unfortunately, I've never seen Tony Picasso or Rich Crowley working, but -no doubt- Glenns judgement is correct..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
gilbert3
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Quote:
On 2004-12-28 19:31, irishguy wrote:
Quote:
I don't see what "new" things Lorayne and such are bringing to their tiny variations.


Are you kidding?

Try Lorayne's Close-up card magic. Now I agree that most everyone steals a little from others and redesigns it for him/herself, but the act of redesigning it is important. The great writers did that. Lorayne being one of them. You can't just repackage someone else's moves without changing them in any real notable way and pass it off as original.


:lol:
bishthemagish
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Quote:
I heartfully second Glenns opinion re Ricky Jay and Bill Malone, I've seen both working, these guys are not only great technicians, but outstandingly great entertainers and they know exactly what they do..

Unfortunately, I've never seen Tony Picasso or Rich Crowley working, but -no doubt- Glenns judgement is correct..


Your not to bad at that yourself - Werner G. Seitz...
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
juggle
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Not sure that this whole discussion is necessary but it seems the field needs both entertainers and technicians. Ken Krenzel is a good example. Not really an entertainer (at least not of the stature of a Bill Malone) but a brilliant technician. The average person from the street will never know him, yet he has pushed the field forward quite a bit. So, what's wrong with that?
Canvey Card Sharp
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Glad that you like Nocturnal Creations - in my view a card magic classic. Pity that some of the anti-Gordon'ites live such shallow lives they will do everything in their power to stop it becoming so. If it had Marlo's name on the front cover, some people would want it sharing a pedestal with other classics.

Pity also that many of Paul's critics are our 'close friends' from across the pond. No doubt, the same people that thought so highly of Paul's material that they wanted to publish it themselves a few years back. Full marks to Paul for deciding to go it alone following their derisory financial offers and producing a QUALITY BRITISH BOOK by one of Britain's finest!

At £9 for the paperback version (on good quality paper), it is the best bargain in card magic today - the effects are dynamite! Compared with some of the 400 page card book mediocre efforts that I've purchased in recent times, this stands on their shoulders with pride.
Barry Allen



A Trick....A Smile....Applause
Kevin Wiese
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I bought Nocturnal Creations and like the effect,"Twister".
I also think Paul Gordon's Diary Trick is the best available.

But enough of Paul Gordon. Anyone ever been fried by Howie Schwarzman ....?
Roger Kelly
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Negative publicity is positive publicity in my view. I've just visited Paul's website and ordered two hardback books "Nocturnal Creations" and "Card Magic Companion" for an amazing £19 inc P&P. Now beat that. These special offers end this week, so Paul tells me, so snap up a bargain quickly:

http://www.paulgordon.net/magic.htm

NocturnalCreation says in another thread that Paul is a true gentleman and will gladly sign his books. He is and he will!
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