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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Everything old is new again » » Guardian of the Grave (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bloodyjack
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Does anyone know the origins of this trick, I know that Steven Minch has a version in The book of Toth and Michael Close has a version using a cassette tape and based on an ogre in various dungeons. So who first came up with this excellent mathematical trick?
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Bill Palmer
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I'm not familiar with the specifics of "Guardian of the Grave," but if it is a 3 X 3 matrix idea, it came from an item by Martin Gardner, using a principle called 8 in 1.

If it is a four by four matrix, it may have come from "Gray's Computer," which is a principle that may have been first used by Karl Fulves.
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bloodyjack
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Cheers Bill
it is a 3 x 3 matrix Do you know were I can get Martin Gardner's original is it in a book?
Or were can I find some documentation on this 8 in 1 principle?
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
runawayjag
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I think the first magic TRICK of this nature that was sold using this principle was Gene Gordon's Voice From Another World. It used a 7-inch 33 r.p.m. playing record and the nine planets. The record played a voice that told which planets to remove and the number of moves they make, etc. and you ended up on the final planet that the record announced.

Of course the record was two-sided so you put the appropriate side up on the record spindle, depending on whether the spectator started odd or even. If you know how this works, you know what I mean.

I guess I'm dating myself! Can you imagine having to lug around even a portable record player today? It was a VERY cool trick at the time though, and fooled everyone who saw it.
Paul
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Yes, it does originate with Gardner, though can't recall exactly where he has it in print. My favourite version is Tony Spina's "Room For Doubt" that Tannen's put out (I think they re-released it the other year) in the late sixties/early seventies. My second favourite is the Minch Tarot card version.

In the seventies George Blake published several versions in Magigram magazine.

Ken Brooke once marketed one with a Safari theme.

Paul.

Posted: Jul 12, 2004 7:10pm
Update! In his book "Tricks of the Imagination" Robert E. Neale says it first appeared in Gardner's column in Scientific American. Neale has a version with two objects "Tale of Two Guns". I recall Paul Daniels once doing a scaled up version of that on British TV.

Paul.
bloodyjack
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I am an electronics engineer and magician at night.
My latest home project is an electronic talking version that uses steve's Tarot idea. Once I have built a prototype for myself I might look in to the possibility of marketing it.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Bill Palmer
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Punx had a version of it called "Kismet," which was in Magical Adventures and Fairy Tales AKA Once Upon a Time. Herbert M. Paufler made the props for it -- it was a one-off -- then he proceeded to knock it off and make his own version, using Punx's patter, which he wrote up in an East German magic magazine. This version was called "Guru," and featured a talking head, which reminded me greatly of the head in the box that Seńor Wences used.

I wrote up a version for the computer in 1984, that was in TI extended basic. It used the speech module, as well. I used Tarot cards, which were laid out on a table. At the end, the remaining card, an Ace of Pentacles, showed up on the screen. It took me about a month to program it, because of the intense graphics.

There was also a version in Magic Dungeon Mentalism. The thing has almost been done to death. But I think every magician who sees it is captivated by it, moreso than the audiences.

The chief defect in the routine is that it takes so long. Phil Goldstein solved this by having more than one object removed at a couple of points in the routine when he did it on television.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Paul
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Bill said,"The chief defect in the routine is that it takes so long."

This is why I rate "Room For Doubt" as the best. The dramatic voice, comic asides and the music (which I eventually realised was from the original "Planet of the Apes" movie)make it entertaining throughout.

I have the Punx books, but don't recall that one so it did not make an impression on me.

Bloodyjack, if you are thinking of marketing the tarot idea, why not have a word with Steve Minch about it?

Paul.
hugmagic
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Animal Safari was another version of this by Magic Inc. I agree it was too long. It was fun to do once at a club meeting or for family at a dinner table but far too long to work in many other situations.
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bloodyjack
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I know Steve, we live in the same city. I will mention it to him. I just saw him at the McBride lecture and have been to a Eugene Burger session at his house, but my routine will be so far from his that it can't be classed as a knock off, and I have a great hook for the electronic device.
A friend of mine mentioned discarding more than one card at once and I might look into that option. I am trying to get a prototype built and working for the PCAM here in a couple of weeks.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2004-07-13 04:12, Paul wrote:
Bill said,"The chief defect in the routine is that it takes so long."

This is why I rate "Room For Doubt" as the best. The dramatic voice, comic asides and the music (which I eventually realised was from the original "Planet of the Apes" movie)make it entertaining throughout.

I have the Punx books, but don't recall that one so it did not make an impression on me.

Bloodyjack, if you are thinking of marketing the tarot idea, why not have a word with Steve Minch about it?

Paul.


It was the last trick in the regular part of the first Punx book. It was called "Kismet."
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
bloodyjack
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Hey Bill what kind of prop was used with Kismet and is the book Readily available? I have my prop finished and working but after all the R&D designing the electronics it might be nice to have Bizarre version.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Bill Palmer
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The book is available. It is called Once Upon a Time. The props would have to be assembled. I'll PM you with more details.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
rickmagic1
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If I'm not mistaken, Christian Chelman has something similar to this using a map with grids, and several coins. I think it's in his book, Capricornian Tales.

Rick
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mattisdx
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I've never heard of it, whats the effect ?
dr chutney
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Having just received Capricornian Tales from East Coast Magic this morning I can confirm his effect, The Fisher King, is based on this matrix principle, wrapped up very nicely in a tale of hidden treasure.
As you proceed you use silver coins to block off the squares one by one until just the chosen square remains.
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MerlH
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Milton Bradley sold an electronic toy version of this this and it is great, the eyes flash and the guradian talks. The trick was in a series called the Magic Works. When they were wholesaled out I bought over 2 dozen and sold them to magician friends of mine. Would not see it for any price now!
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Stevethomas
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I still have a few of the original Magic Works models around the studio. Let's not forget what Wellington did with it...what a beautiful version of that they're selling!

Steve Thomas
bloodyjack
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I am working on a new version the prop with the electronics in is a Gypsy fortune teller booth with anamatronic gypsy. She gives you a Tarot card reading eliminating cards as you go. You can check my progress here
http://tinyurl.com/6wjav
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Scott Ocheltree
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The MagicWorks piece was designed by Mark Setteducati.

The Wellington version of this is perhaps the ultimate presentation of Marks idea. For $425 I'm guessing it's pretty nice. Hank Lee has it listed HERE

BloodyJack/Pete,
I love the look of Madame Zarra!
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