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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Playing Size Cards: Bridge or Poker (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JDobbs
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I’m curious as to how many use Bridge size cards versus Poker size? I get majority, if not all, gaffed cards at the retails will be based upon poker. However, for those who struggle with manipulation of the poker size cards, do you find it easier to use bridge size?

I for one have nerve damage and arthritis in my right hand and arm, but also have smaller hands. I think bridge cards may help with manipulation a little bit.

What’s your thoughts?
Ray J
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This is something I have strong opinions on, imagine that! But seriously, I have written about this in the past and I do have some (hopefully) helpful comments to offer.

I could sum my opinion up by saying you should use whatever cards allow you to perform to your best ability. But to flesh it out a little, consider this. Many magicians in the past used the narrower cards. And by the way, the difference is in the width only, the length tends to be identical. The width of so-called bridge cards is 1/4" less than the poker alternative. The reasoning was apparently to allow a person to hold more cards in their hand, fanned, in order to see the indices. This happens not only in bridge, but in many other card games.

One of the magicians who favored bridge-sized cards was Jerry Andrus. I saw him lecture live once and didn't even pay attention to the cards. The magic was so strong that the size of cards was the last thing on my mind.

I wonder how folks who say to not use bridge cards justify the statement. They seem to have the opinion that magicians should only use poker-sized cards and they should be Bicycle Rider Back design. The way I see it, if someone was a fan of magic and saw a number of magicians all using the exact same cards would that cause me to assume they were "normal", or would that maybe cause me to wonder what's so special about the cards that all magicians seem to need them. Personally I think it is unnecessary. I've seen magicians using Copags, Walgreen's Studs, Piatniks and Fourniers and I don't think the audience cared a whit.

Something else that I've often wondered about is the apparent belief that somehow Bicycle Rider Backs cannot be gimmicked. In other words, sure, they are a common back design, but so what? Just because they are familiar doesn't preclude gaffing them. I just think the whole thing is ridiculous.

It used to be the opposite at one time and many gaffed cards were actually in bridge size only. I'm remembering the Fox Lake and such, and most every Emerson and West packet trick was bridge-sized. Didn't hurt sales. Didn't cause audiences to complain or to even question.

If smaller cards help you, because of health issues, use them! They also make palming easier, passes easier, etc. Just use them.

Don't worry about what other magicians do or think. Focus on your audience. Make yourself and them happy and that's enough.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
ThomasJ
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Quote:
On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:
One of the magicians who favored bridge-sized cards was Jerry Andrus. I saw him lecture live once and didn't even pay attention to the cards. The magic was so strong that the size of cards was the last thing on my mind.

Don't worry about what other magicians do or think. Focus on your audience. Make yourself and them happy and that's enough.


And all this time I thought Jerry Andrus just had giant hands.

I agree, use whatever cards you are comfortable with. I was rewatching an Elmsley workshop recently - I think it was filmed in the early or mid 90's - and he said, "Poker sized cards are unfamiliar to most laymen on this side of the [world]. Over here, If you see somebody with a Poker pack, 9 times out of 10 he's a magician." He was living in London at the time.

T.J.
Ray J
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Andrus did have fairly large, beefy hands. I believe his "day job" was as a lineman for the electric company, so he did lots of hard manual labor.

Here's a video which shows him using Bridge cards.

https://youtu.be/47PNVRgj5Po
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
dmcknight
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On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:
....Don't worry about what other magicians do or think. Focus on your audience. Make yourself and them happy and that's enough.


This is the bottom line. I do think the "standard" is bikes but I don't think anyone cares. I really don't. In fact there are now some (in my opinion only) hideous looking back designs that are being touted as "normal" cards and probably are.
"Success" is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
Ray J
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An argument can be made that more isn't always better and that some designers have "jumped the shark". I share your observation so that makes at least two of us. Smile
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
Tom Cutts
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Quote:
On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:
I wonder how folks who say to not use bridge cards justify the statement.


Pretty simple, really, time was not so long ago that if you went into a home and asked for a deck of cards, you would be handed a deck of poker size Bikes. This is when the thinking came to fruition that using such a deck would seem the most normal as perceived by the general public. Popularity of Bridge had wained, and Poker had become king of the card, home gaming world. Fast forward to today and this is no longer the case. Even Walgreens carries a plethora of back designs to choose from, although most are still printed by USPCC, the makers of Bikes.

Quote:
Something else that I've often wondered about is the apparent belief that somehow Bicycle Rider Backs cannot be gimmicked.


Pretty simple, again. Fact is, for a period of time the USPCC decided they would no longer print cards altering the Bicycle Rider Back design. So for a time, possibly still ongoing, one could not get a printed gaffed or marked Bicycle Rider Back design.

Now we have a wonderful world of diversity, offering us the chance to use what best fits our performing lives. Old school purists may complain, but times have definitely continued to change to embrace diversity.
1tepa1
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Tommy Wonder used bridge cards. In USA poker size cards at least in the past were the common size, and I think the idea was that if you used them when practicing and performing, then if someone did hand you a bridge sized deck, you could still perform but the other way around would have been more difficult. In many countries in the EU, the cards are manufactured by local smaller companies that mainly make cards for board games and such, and they are pretty much all bridge sized. The quality of the cards are bad also, they don't have air cushion finish or anything equivelent. So here a poker sized deck is out of the norm and I have had some comments years ago saying that my cards were bigger than the spectators were used to. Bicycle cards I have never seen in any physical shop apart from a magic shop over here. So here if someone has bikes, they are with 99 percent accuracy a magician. Poker sized cards you usually tend to get if you buy a poker case with the chips in it. Although in the later years I have seen some shops do have like a single brand of poker sized cards also available, but they are not great quality either. Always borderless also.

If over here you wanted to use cards that come across as maximally normal, you would use bridge sized cards that have some company logo printed on since decks of cards are like pencils, companies give them away and print their brand name on it. But as someone who uses the deck to perform, I don't use those cards because I don't want to perform with cards that have a written label on them and also I want cards that are decent quality.
Nikodemus
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It's not clear where the OP lives, but anyway -
Here in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) my experience is -
1. People play all sorts of card games, but Poker is very rare.
2. Poker cards are almost unheard of.
3. Bicycle Rider backs are almost unheard of - certainly not the standard cards in every home that they seem to be in the USA.

However I like to use Bikes, and no one ever says they look suspicious.

One detail maybe worth considering - Poker cards seem to have the index in two corners. In my experience, most Bridge cards have them in four corners. This would cause problems in some effects where you disguise a card by casually covering one corner.

Another factor that may be relevant is that there are a LOT of pre-printed gaff cards available in poker size Rider backs.
martydoesmagic
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Quote:
On May 31, 2023, ThomasJ wrote:
Quote:
On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:
One of the magicians who favored bridge-sized cards was Jerry Andrus. I saw him lecture live once and didn't even pay attention to the cards. The magic was so strong that the size of cards was the last thing on my mind.

Don't worry about what other magicians do or think. Focus on your audience. Make yourself and them happy and that's enough.


And all this time I thought Jerry Andrus just had giant hands.

I agree, use whatever cards you are comfortable with. I was rewatching an Elmsley workshop recently - I think it was filmed in the early or mid 90's - and he said, "Poker sized cards are unfamiliar to most laymen on this side of the [world]. Over here, If you see somebody with a Poker pack, 9 times out of 10 he's a magician." He was living in London at the time.

T.J.


As others have mentioned, Alex Elmsley's observation still holds true in the UK. Although I do occasionally come across people using Poker-sized cards that are card players and not magicians. However, this situation is very rare. Elmsley used Waddingtons, and I find that they're of comparable quality with Bicycle Rider Backs, so long as you get the ones printed in Austria and not China (I wrote a blog post called Which Waddingtons about the difference between the Chinese and Austrian cards).

I think you should learn to use both in case you ever borrow a deck that is the opposite of the size that you're familiar with. However, I tend to practice more with Waddingtons because they're easier to buy in the UK and a little cheaper than Rider Backs.

Marty
Julie
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Quote:
On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:

...Many magicians in the past used the narrower cards. And by the way, the difference is in the width only, the length tends to be identical...


Just to clarify: quite awhile ago there was a somewhat lengthy discussion here on the Café concerning the relative sizes and applications of Bicycle Poker & Bridge Size cards. It was determined then Bicycle Bridge Size cards are also a tiny bit LONGER than their Poker Size brothers and sisters. Smile

Of course, this makes for a very practical locator/control system whilst you are holding a Poker Size deck by the short ends with a single Bridge Size card secreted therein.

To be certain, I've just tested this discovery with a Poker Size deck and a single Bridge Size card and it works!

I'm not sure how all this has been affected by the changes at U.S. Playing Card Company, but it is interesting.

Julie
Ray J
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2023, Tom Cutts wrote:
Quote:
On May 2, 2023, Ray J wrote:
I wonder how folks who say to not use bridge cards justify the statement.


Pretty simple, really, time was not so long ago that if you went into a home and asked for a deck of cards, you would be handed a deck of poker size Bikes. This is when the thinking came to fruition that using such a deck would seem the most normal as perceived by the general public. Popularity of Bridge had wained, and Poker had become king of the card, home gaming world. Fast forward to today and this is no longer the case. Even Walgreens carries a plethora of back designs to choose from, although most are still printed by USPCC, the makers of Bikes.

Quote:
Something else that I've often wondered about is the apparent belief that somehow Bicycle Rider Backs cannot be gimmicked.


Pretty simple, again. Fact is, for a period of time the USPCC decided they would no longer print cards altering the Bicycle Rider Back design. So for a time, possibly still ongoing, one could not get a printed gaffed or marked Bicycle Rider Back design.

Now we have a wonderful world of diversity, offering us the chance to use what best fits our performing lives. Old school purists may complain, but times have definitely continued to change to embrace diversity.


I don’t agree that average people had poker sized Bikes, not around here anyway. I know all about the fact that USPCC began to restrict what could be done to the backs (primarily, as opposed to faces). No muggles know or knew anything about that. Most magi still don’t, or can explain why. It doesn’t take away from my argument that most laypeople probably don’t care what cards you use and using any particular brand won’t prevent them from suspecting gaffs. They understand a “trick deck” can come in any flavor.

If magicians want to use Rider Backs with the idea they are above suspicion, they can do so. Doesn’t hurt anyone and makes USPCC happy.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
Tom Cutts
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You are free to believe what you want. I’m just relaying what was behind the things you mentioned you couldn’t understand. Comes from the exact era of the thinking you have an issue with. Since it was somewhat contested at the time, that is no surprise. The West Coast Bikes vs East Coast Tally Ho days were exciting spicy times. I came along on the tail end of that fun. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
martydoesmagic
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In the UK, it is common for people to mistake an unfamiliar, poker-sized pack of playing cards for a "trick deck". Unfortunately, this includes Bicycle Rider Backs. However, using bridge-sized cards from brands like Waddingtons or Carta Mundi can help reduce this suspicion. On the other hand, I assume that the opposite is true in the US and that the unfamiliar size of bridge cards may raise such doubts.

Bridge-sized cards do help children and adults with small hands with some sleight of hand. My seven-year-old daughter can comfortably hold a pack of Waddingtons in dealer's grip, but she can't do the same with Rider Backs. Personally, I think this is a bit of a non-issue. Use the size that you like best. From an aesthetic point of view, I prefer Poker-sized cards and, as I have long fingers, I find most sleight of hand a little easier with the larger poker cards. But I'll continue to use both.

Marty
Jason Simonds
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I have small hands (I could wear my 6 year old's gloves) and early on, when I struggled with some sleights, I believed Bridge size cards would be better for me. But as has been pointed out, the majority of gaffs are for Poker sized decks, so I sucked it up and went back to Poker sized decks. Funny enough, I rarely use gaffs but poker sized decks are comfortable in my hands, now.
ssibal
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Use whatever you are most comfortable with. Some audience members may be suspicious of you use a deck that isn’t common in your area but then again there will always be suspicious members in the audience for any number of reasons. If your performance is engaging, interesting, and entertaining most people won’t care about the props that you used.
Dannydoyle
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I don’t think it is the cards that come off as “above suspicion “. I think it has to do with how they are handled and things like that more than the cards themselves.

I use poker size mainly because I have gorilla hands. The smaller cards are not as easy for me personally.

I don’t use gaffs or stacks or anything special. So if they want to handle the deck and shuffle then cool. No matter what kind of cards there are in play I believe this goes a long way to being above suspicion.

Your mileage may vary.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
warren
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Here in the UK bridge size cards are used more than poker size cards, I personally use poker size cards and nobody has ever commented on it so use whichever cards work for you best.
dmcknight
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2023, Dannydoyle wrote:
I don’t think it is the cards that come off as “above suspicion “. I think it has to do with how they are handled and things like that more than the cards themselves.


Agreed. When I was a kid I did fans, ribbon spreads w/ a card riding the wave (all Mark Wilson Course stuff). Now I try to appear more haphazard, less showy.
"Success" is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
Julie
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It's occurred to me that if one is concerned about a "unique" deck appearing suspicious, you might consider not using the box, but just a rubber band around the gimmicked deck in front of your audience.

Along the same lines as having a gimmicked/stacked deck switched with a duplicate non-gimmicked/stacked deck (both held by a matching card clip); instead of the card clip, use the rubberband idea to reinforce the "normal" status of the deck(s) involved.

Maybe I've just re-invented the wheel? Smile
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