It seems like there are less and less magic collectors. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much interest in persevering magic history as in the past.
I'm interested if any of you feel the same way, I have been selling magic estates off and on for years, but the market seems to have dwindled.
Let me know what your thoughts are.

In todays times, it is my humble opinion, disposable funds for things have been dwindling and like everything else, the prices put on some of these collectors items are out of reach. There are things I wish to add to my collection, yet needs overcome wants. I now have to let the collecting go to those that have the disposable income.

Wravyn, your points are well taken. Certainly, the additional cost of shipping has really gotten out of hand and becomes a discouragement to any potential buyer.
My concern is with losing a great deal of history when the apparatus made by other Magicians and Craftsmen are disposed of or even trashed when a Magician passes.
Builders now long passed whose creations are now classic and/or vintage should be kept and treasured.
Sad state of affairs when finances destroy history...

I'm not certain the condition of which you speak is necessarily being created by troubled finances. People who buy/collect appararus are still spending money, lots of money. People who are looking for "bargains" and/or to resell, not so much.

It's as much a generational thing as anything else. Sure, you will see crazy inflated prices on e-bay and other sites and locations, BUT comparativly few of these items wind-up selling for the ridiculously high prices being asked.

Of course, if the item is a true collectible and a collector needs/wants it for his own collection, that's a different story altogether. There are still completists out there, too.

Another valid point is that some sellers seem to not understand the difference between "not being made any longer" and "collectible". Then there's the differnce between "used" magic (contemporary or otherwise) and genuinely "rare" magic. Even seasoned magicians--hobbyists or otherwise--need to make a carefully considered judgement if repurchasing his/her youthful memories is prudent at this point in time.

...And then there is this harsh reality of Life; many of our current performers and collectors are shuffling off this plane to explore the mysteries of the next and no one is coming along behind them to appreciate their magic.

It's been decades since the magic of olde gradually morphed into card & coin tricks with a smattering of mental magic (using props). Kids' performers seem to be the last holdouts of the glorious days of prop magic.

Who cares? Of couse, there are still the live "Big Name acts" in the resort areas, very successful "cruiz ship" performers, "trade show" experts, "table hoppers" and fun loving "Part Time Pro's" in pockets all over the country. 'Even a couple of really good productions on television.

We care! Share the history, tips, and/or performance techniques. Share your personal stories behind the acquisition of your favorite pieces. In today's inflationary times, maybe it's practical to concentrate on magic you already own. After all, magic you already own is pretty good or you wouldn't have purchased it in the first place, right?

Julie

Well said Julie.

I share the opposite view of 61magic, and feel that magic collecting as a whole is thriving, and arguably doing better than ever. Thank you internet.

The world wide web is making it very easy for collectors to find one another and interact, trade, buy, sell, share information, and research. There are dozens of social media groups, and auctions - while continually fluctuating in their pricing - continue to flourish.

Now, while I have no knowledge of what 61magic has tried to sell in the past, I'm sure the quality was good, but I would say like any market, trends change and supply and demand are constantly in flux. Magic collecting is a niche and will always be a niche, so there is a limited pool of interested parties to pull from. And, as Julie eluded to, their tastes are finicky and ever-changing. I would argue that the market is basically the same, but the methods we employ as sellers, and the products we make available, need to evolve.

And also the economy stinks.

Interesting views Oz, since I sell estates and have been for years you would think the internet would been a boon for collectors/dealers which to a degree it is.
However, the people who would be collectors are the same generation that is passing on. With the trend for younger generations to want only the latest and greatest and move onto the newest things that come out.
There actually isn't an increase in collectors. In fast some of the more widely known collector/dealers have either quit the business or passed on themselves.
While the economy is a factor it is not the main driving force. The buyer's motivation is what has changed the most.
The sales techniques and the ability to advertise the items has evolved to provide access to more potential buyers than any time previously.
I have watched items list not only on the big auction house but with respected shops, both on-line, and brick & mortar have very good quality items just sit and not sell. And not due to pricing.
I have personally been involved with magic about 50 years and have been selling estates for over 25. I can tell you though time there has been a steady decline in collecting even as the ability to reach buyers has increased.

I recently attended a magic flea-market sponsored by a prominent magic club, the large majority of sellers and buyers were mostly grey beards. Very few of the younger buyers had any interest in any of the classic and/or collectable merchandise.
One comment from a young (20 something) buyer made to his peer about a complete set of Tarbel in super condition offered at about $18 a volume spoke to the problem. "That only has a bunch of old stuff no one cares about anymore", nothing could be further from the truth. The books have stood the test of time and are cornerstones for many libraries for generations. This is buyer perception.

I try to encourage all younger hobbyists to study the classics and the history so to allow them a chance to help preserve the apparatus which will never be offered again.
Thanks everyone for adding to the discussion and do your best to help preserve and perpetuate the hobby.

Great insights 61magic. Thank you.

I guess I would be counted as one of the older collectors, and totally understand where you're coming from, especially as a seller. I never thought of the age of collectors, but now that I think more about it, you're absolutely right. It does seem to be a generational attraction and - as Julie eluded to - I'm guessing it has to do somewhat with the decline of apparatus-driven performances. I'm no magic historian, but if one were to look back I'd venture to say that many current collectors are like me, and are fans of the art and grew up seeing parlor and stage shows with props we couldn't afford. Then, when we had disposable income and able to afford these vintage pieces, we began pursuing them as a way to capture our youth and collect memories.

In many ways I love the progression of contemporary magic and the evolution into more organic effects, but also long for the mysteriously painted boxes, and oddly decorated tubes. They were the tools of the old ones, and perhaps the old ones have had their time. Even more important that the remaining curators of these magical remnants hold fast and as you say, perpetuate and preserve.

Speaking of "painted boxes" (and "oddly decorated tubes" ) I wonder if anyone has a massive U.F. Grant collection hidden away somewhere?

Can you imagine the bulk of his writings and creations being available in one giant book?

Curious Julie

I suspect that there are serious collectors of UF Grant props. A million years ago when I worked in a magic shop, we carried the entire Grant line. He would send us a large carton full of copies of his catalog from time to time and we would give them out to customers. I demonstrated and sold many Stratospheres and Temple Screens as well as quite a few other Grant items. We always had one of his Flying Carpets in stock and on display and I would demonstrate it if I had the appropriate person to sit on it. I believe it sold for $100. I remember the designs and design changes on his props such as the metal tubes and wood boxes. He even changed the Temple Screen designs but settled on the green and orange set when I was selling them. Stratospheres went through several changes as well. Some were more subtle differences than others.

Anyway, a book on his catalog of offerings is certainly doable! I could help out a bunch if I were asked to do so! I do not have a large collection of his magic but a decent memory of what he offered. I sold his stuff for a decade.

My husband had a very similar background to yours when he was working in a "Trick Shop"...

Back in the Olden Days

Lotsa fun!

I would have to agree with the point that the younger generation in our art really need to expand their knowledge…they do indeed consider such books as Tarbell obsolete and passé.

When I have a chance to perform at a local magic ring I cannot tell you afterwards how many times younger kids come up to me and ask ‘where did you get the idea of that trick from’…I endlessly reply it is in Tarball, Greater Magic or the Hoffman books…which they stare blankly at me.

C’mon youngsters…you can do better…learn the history of magic! We are dependent on you to carry the torch.

NOT growing up with Magic Catalogs (and ordering from same) equals a generation(s) that no longer understands the terms: "Foo Can", Phantom Tube", "Lota Vase", "Super-X", "Square Circle Box", etc.

Now its all about Cards & Coins, with some interest in Mentalism.

Ask a young magician to name 5 well-known Magicians - prior to the year 2000 - and for what are they known for...and they'll most likely stop after saying "Houdini" and "Penn & Teller".

The Magic collecting community is very large. And plenty of young guns with money. If you doubt that check Potter and Potter magic auctions.

Other than the auction sites or some well-know sellers, the younger collectors or would-be collectors might not know where to go to buy collectibles. I would probably buy more if I knew who was selling estates outside of a handful of websites I frequent.

Thanks,
T.J.

So I was at a well known antique fair in Ohio this weekend, and one dealer had an area labeled "Old Magic Tricks." My wife spotted the sign which made immediately turn my head, but the table was full of dilapidated magic set props, or off-brand gags. Nothing worth looking at.

I wonder if this is what younger magicians think that "vintage magic" is... just basically junk. The reason being, to find the good stuff, you need to know the sources that sell it. And to know the sources, you need to have the connections. And to make the connections, you need the channels to make that happen. All of those things are slowly disappearing as we collectors age, die, and have our collections either re-sold at a massively discounted price to a savvy buyer, or far worse... thrown away.

Jim Klodzen above, mentions that "The Magic collecting community is very large. And plenty of young guns with money. If you doubt that check Potter and Potter magic auctions." While true, the prices bid for vintage magic props are quite large, the community bidding on them are quite small... and they pretty much all know each other. They are for the most part wealthy businessmen, buying what they couldn't have when they were younger... or because they weren't even born yet. But these folks are dying off, as will the market, unless the younger generation is educated on the value of these props.

I don't have a solution, just my favorite thought as a collector... collect what you enjoy, not what you think will go up in value. That way, you'll never be disappointed.

Collecting for many people starts by accident. They acquire a variety of items over time and then, if they don't abandon their hobby for one reason or another, they begin to specialize in a particular area of interest. If their income increases over time (as is especially true with magic hobbyists), their ability to acquire grows, too, and they purchase greater amounts to grow their collection.

Back when I owned a brick-and-mortar magic business, my own personal collection grew because auction houses knew where to find me (we were in the Yellow Pages) when they were looking to dispose of estates. I acquired huge lots of magic items. I was especially happy when buying the contents of storage warehouses from magic companies no longer in business. I ended up issuing my own large mailing lists, selling directly to collectors (Bill King among them). I didn't have the space to keep examples of everything I acquired, so I knew that my ownership of them was short-lived; it had to be that way so there was no remorse. I had to give many of these items new homes. And I sure did!

In today's world, I believe that the "desire" to own magic collectibles is still there, but perhaps not to same extent it was in bygone days. Unless an item helps completes a particular collection, most magicians aren't interested. And if a piece was originally issued in large numbers, their collection may already have one, so the seller must find new buyers for it. The high price of collectibles will turn off some, but an example in excellent condition can still command a good price (just take a look at the Potter & Potter sale prices). The smaller collector gets outbid by the one with deeper pockets. The smaller collector still wants an item like it, so he/she will wait in the wings for another one to come on the market.

One thing's for sure. The museum-quality pieces will continue to increase in value. Will the state of the art electronic magic and mentalism items of today fetch high prices tomorrow? My prediction is no. Electronics become obsolete or in many cases, stop working. Especially if they require an ancillary device (smart watch, tablet or phone) to work. And of course, magicians for the most part are traditionalists. They want the tried and proven. Thus, they'll likely still want vintage Thayer, Owen, Milson-Worth, etc. items. Even the Grant magic items have reached the vintage market. (Thank you, Julie, for being my helper to sell the MAK Flying Carpet illusion I brought to the Brush Prairie convention some years back.)

Are young people interested in buying collectibles? Not so much. And that's never changed and probably never will. Why should a young person part with their hard-earned cash to buy something that will likely never get used? Instead, they want the latest and greatest to fool their friends and family with. It's part of the maturation process, I believe, for a potential buyer to admit remorse over not having kept or purchased a particular item to begin fueling a passion to acquire it. Or perhaps they have been gifted some older apparatus from an older magician they befriended at a local magic club, and now they'd like to expand their collection.

In my own case, I began purchasing items and books associated with the late Robert A. Nelson once I had the funds to do so. Now I can call myself a collector after acquiring several hundred of the 1,000 or so items that have graced the Nelson Enterprises catalogs over the years. I even wrote a book about it. But the Nelson collection isn't the only one I have, and so I'm picky about what I buy and who I buy it from.

When I think back about all the magicians (and musicians, as I'm a former card-carrying AFM member) I've known, it's interesting to note how few of them became collectors. They mostly used their props or instruments as tools to perform with. If it was "good enough," they used it. When they lost interest, or other pressing financial needs arose, they sold it. Only a very few had the financial resources or the interest to acquire more items, the space to house them, and a spouse or significant other patient enough to support their crazy partner's interest in building their collection! (God bless mine. Thank you, Margaret!)