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Michael Singer New user Seattle 33 Posts |
I just started reading "Strong Magic," and in Chapter 1 Ortiz states, "I would go so far as to say that 'the illusion of impossibility' is as good a definition of what constitutes magic as I can imagine."
Indeed, it is the sheer impossibility of many magic effects that makes them so powerful, and this got me thinking. (You'll see the mentalism connection in a moment.) One of my favorite magic effects to perform is Sankey's "Paperclipped." Before the revelation of the folded, paperclipped card I always state: "So...because this card came from another deck, it's POSSIBLE that it too is the Five of Hearts, right? But what do you think the odds actually are, statistically speaking? 1 in 52. Right. We know that, because we can calculate the odds of things that are POSSIBLE. So, while it would be impressive if this card was actually the Five of Hearts, it wouldn't really be all THAT impressive...because it's POSSIBLE that it's just a coincidence, right? But...and this is the really weird part...and there's no way of calculating the odds of something like this happening because it's totally IMPOSSIBLE...if I take the paperclip off I can show you that this card...that I folded up last night...and put here on the table before we even started...is not just any Five of Hearts, it's your SIGNED Five of Hearts...." And the participant goes, "Hwuh?" just like Scooby Doo. And yet...in mentalism, it seems that the opposite is sometimes true, that the IMPOSSIBLE provokes weaker reactions than the mere IMPROBABLE. Last summer I wrote a manuscript on an effect I do regarding intuition, wherein the participant uses her intuition to methodically and fairly eliminate 51 different cards leaving just one that is revealed to be hers. In the manuscript I note: "When she turns over that last card she'll have the sense that SHE did the magic. Goosebumps are common toward the end of this effect, even BEFORE the last card is turned over. She WANTS to succeed, but is likely a bit afraid of succeeding. She knows that it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have ended up with the right card...just highly IMPROBABLE. If it was impossible, she'd assume you were up to a magician's shenanigans. But because it IS possible, she assumes that if she succeeds, the success is her own." So...I'm fascinated by the psychology of the moment of confronting the impossible in magic. A signed bill appears in a lemon in a bag that a participant was holding since the beginning of the show...and his brain short circuits for a moment. Because that's...well...impossible. And yet...in mentalism...it seems that the spine-chilling moment may come not from confronting the IMPOSSIBLE, but from confronting the IMPROBABLE. It's not impossible for someone to tell me the name of my first love, or my ATM PIN number. After all, it could just be a lucky guess. But it's improbable that a guess would be correct. Confronting the impossible in a magic effect, the participant is left in awe because there is no explanation (other than trickery). Confronting the improbable in a mentalism effect, the participant is left in awe because the only explanation is that you actually read her mind, used your intuition, hypnotized her when she wasn't paying attention. Confronting the impossible in a magic effect is a warping of reality. Confronting the improbable in a mentalism effect is a reframing of reality. (And perhaps this is why intentionally missing on occasion is such a valuable tool for a mentalist...it turns the impossible into the improbable.) In the end though, as has been stated elsewhere on this forum, it all comes down to context, to framing. Presented as a magic effect, Paperclipped presents an EXTERNAL OBJECTIVE IMPOSSIBILITY ("There must have been a warp in the universe and my signed card got folded and paperclipped before it was chosen and signed"). But presented in the context of a mentalism routine about perception and memory and suggestion and hallucination, Paperclipped presents an INTERNAL SUBJECTIVE IMPROBABILITY ("I must have hallucinated seeing the folded and paperclipped card before we started"). These are some of the things I've been pondering during my first year seriously "studying" magic and mentalism, as I try to choose a path for myself. For a while I've been wondering if there's any difference at all between strong magic and strong mentalism. That's an old debate. But now I find myself thinking about the impossible vs. the improbable, wondering which is stronger, and how they relate to both arts. Any thoughts? Mike
"The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery." - Ken Kesey
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amens Regular user 109 Posts |
Mentalism in my eyes is more credible than magic - because mentalism doesn't claim to do impossible things such as magic does.
It's impossible to do something impossible - that's logical. Improbable things are possible, that makes them more "real". What is stronger is up to you and your presentation. |
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francisco Loyal user Coolest guy in the café 267 Posts |
I think it's a little unfair no-one's replied to this post as it's so good and thought provoking!
so il reply... well, when you said "She WANTS to succeed, but is likely a bit afraid of succeeding. She knows that it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have ended up with the right card...just highly IMPROBABLE. If it was impossible, she'd assume you were up to a magician's shenanigans. But because it IS possible, she assumes that if she succeeds, the success is her own," I thought this was brilliantly put, and in my opinion this would be stronger than an impossible effect, as you stated how the spectator may be inclined to think you were up to shenanigans! also the way she may have thought the success was her own, and that you have helped her achieve that success, this is a powerful thing. However, I think improbable effects do need a lot more presentation on making the success the spectators, so could be arder to achieve. my two cents anyway.. thanks for the mind-provoking post, I like your style! so in conclusion... GO IMPROBABLE! -Francisco
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'
[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism] |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I think you've nicely described the difference between mental magic and mentalism.
Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
I think youve just got it in one.
I wish I could think of something to contrabute but I cant.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Osiris Special user 610 Posts |
Actually, I believe the proverbial nail has been struck squarely upon the head...
We're all familiar with the psycho-babble difference between magic and mentalism performance; the former requires a suspension of disbelief whilst the latter requires an investment of belief. When it comes to mentalism or even certain aspects of Bizarre Magick, it is the PLAUSABILITY that makes it so potent. This is something Cassidy has brought out in many of his writtings, as have many others. Being able to know the difference is the first step in graduating away from magician's thinking and "magician's guilt" and allows us to evolve as a Psychic-like character. In most everything we do we allow for probability by presenting the possibility or, plausible explanation around the things manifested in our presence. The more "logic" we can sew into a presentation/explanation, the more we rob our patrons of their natural skepticism and suck them into a state of "Theatrical Belief"... our job being to leave them hanging and uncertain if or not what they just encountered was "real." Trust me, even guys that tell the audience time and again that they're just doing tricks, still end up with a large score of folks crediting them for having special gifts. That's just how this side of the craft affects people and one of the chief reasons mentalism demands a sense of awareness and maturity within the performer if it is to be executed properly and sustain your image as one that is "wise and balanced with the ALL." So to speak. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. |
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Michael Singer New user Seattle 33 Posts |
Thanks for the comments, folks.
Osiris: I like the idea that "...the former requires a suspension of disbelief whilst the latter requires an investment of belief." I'll have to look at Cassidy's stuff again. Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject? Mike
"The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery." - Ken Kesey
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Anabelle Special user 951 Posts |
I think you guys are really smart and I'm glad I found the Café so that I'm able to read these sort of things.
Anabelle |
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Roth Inner circle The 18 5090 Posts |
When a magician does a trick people think "how DID he do that?"
When a mentalist does something people think "how COULD he do that?" My 2 cents. |
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
I really think it all depends on the delivery & performance abilities of the performer not to mention the mindset of the spectator. For some individuals that view magic they really think that it is supernatural too others you are just a trickster.
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reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
Great thread! Some fine things being said. Let me echo some...
Mentalism is about transcendence. Magic has transcendent moments that fade because they are quickly explained away. ( "It's a trick") Mentalism has transcendent moments that linger. They aren't quickly explained away. The performance of mentalism makes people wonder at the nature of the mentalist's mind ( Like Myster says above, "How could he do that?") The audience also wonders at the nature of their own minds. ("Could I do that?") It gives them a sense that their own minds transcend ordinary limits. It gives a real thrill that way. Mentalism & Magic are like weird brothers or sisters. They're related but how very different outlooks and personality. Great thread. Somebody keep it going! |
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
Magic has transcendent moments that fade because they are quickly explained away. ( "It's a trick")
Mentalism has transcendent moments that linger. They aren't quickly explained away. Reese That certainly sounds good TJ |
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salsa_dancer Inner circle 1935 Posts |
Michael,
What a great post and very thought provoking. Not only have you started looking at the various ways a person 'views' an effect you are also touching on the various ways a performer 'presents' the effect. I like what you are saying about the impossible versus the improbable, and with the right wording you can guide the spectators mind in either direction. It has given me some things to think about from a presentational point of view that is going to make me re-evaluate some of the effects that I use and look for more out of them. Good stuff... |
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Osiris Special user 610 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-07-14 19:19, Myster wrote: Myster... has anyone told you that your Icon makes you look like John Kerry? |
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Roth Inner circle The 18 5090 Posts |
Oh that's just great...I just spent 2 hours on photo shop to get that effect.
I predict Kerry will win by 2,547,152 votes. |
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-07-12 05:49, amens wrote: Excellently said, amens. My stage persona is one that is whimsical, intelligent and imaginative, and does his magic in a way that celebrates that it is fake. I've never cared for the spooky, look-I'm-from-another-dimension-and-I-have-these-powers type presentation. I'm more the "No nation loves hooey like we do. Viva hooey!"* type. When my persona does something, it is his imagination at play. One of the best things I've found, with a persona like this, is that it really takes the edge off of any tricks with a sucker explanation. Instead of, "I explained this trick, and yet still fooled you. HA, HA!", I do the explanation, and ask, "Now, do you prefer knowing, or do you prefer the mystery?" Usually, people prefer the mystery, and I'm able to do what is usually the sucker kicker (showing the fake egg is now real, showing that even the switched-out torn napkin is now restored, etc.), as a gift of mystery to the audience. * This quote is from Will Rogers |
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
What a great thread
Cheers TJ |
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Alan Morgan Regular user 104 Posts |
What about B*Wave? That seems like a one in four chance! It often gets a better reaction than ones that it seems like it has a much lower chance of getting it right.
If it's more amazing when it's more likely, magicians should play around with a 50-50 chance (hey, the 'pick a hand' type are like that, loosely speaking) or even 100% chance! "I put this card down...and it is still there!" *Applause* It works in theory, doesn't it? |
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Michael Singer New user Seattle 33 Posts |
Having recently listened to the "Conversations" interviews, it's clear to me that there is a lot of controversy regarding this topic among even top working professionals! It seems that every performer eventually embraces the approach that works best/feels best for him or her.
Much as I hate seemingly self-indulgent Internet "journals" (or posts resembling them!) I thought I'd share the latest developments in my own learning process in the hope that it helps others new to the art and to this debate form their own conclusions. On a recent visit to the east coast, I performed Mark Elsdon's "Zenner-Tech" for my mother. When I revealed that she had correctly identified five out of five ESP cards, her response astonished me: she simply shrugged her shoulders and said, "Well, I'm not surprised. My nutritionist says I'm a VERY intuitive person...." For days I couldn't figure out why it played so weak. Was I merely duped by clever marketing? But after an enlightening exchange with Richard Osterlind a few weeks ago regarding the topic of this thread, all is clear to me, and I've become something of a convert to his way of thinking. In his book "Making Real Magic," Richard states: "Magic, as I have defined it, is not doing the supernatural or even pretending to do the supernatural. It is doing the IMPOSSIBLE." After re-reading the book, and after carefully watching his "Mind Mysteries" performances again, I realize that if the goal is entertainment, this whole debate can be boiled down to a concept that's so simple it's easy to miss. You need to create drama. And to do that you need to do what any successful story does: "Get the hero up in a tree, keep him up in the tree, get him down from the tree." Those are Richard's words, not mine. But I've heard them before, as they form the essence of what "storytelling," as an ancient human instinct, is. This is not about storytelling as an approach to presenting mentalism. It's about mentalism AS storytelling. And it can be applied to the simplest of effects. The key is that often times the audience doesn't know the hero is up in a tree (or just how big a tree it is!) unless you tell them. Every person in your audience has different beliefs regarding what is and what isn't possible. But in a performance situation, YOU are the authority. I encourage anyone intrigued by this debate about "the impossible" to read Richard's book, and to then carefully watch the "Challenge Mind Reading" performance on his DVDs. After recounting the events that got him up in the tree (having to name a card the participant has merely thought of and secretly looked at), Richard says, "Man...I wish I could do this one." The implication is that getting out of this mess is so impossible that even he doesn't know how he's going to do it! That creates tension. And drama. And drama is entertaining. Remember Houdini? As Richard puts it in the book, "You don't have to be an escape artist to create this kind of drama." It seems to me now that had I presented my performance of "Zenner-Tech" as a challenge (had I recounted the history of ESP testing, had I noted the fact that statistically the odds of getting all five cards right is only 1 in 120, had I pointed out that even so-called "psychics" would have a hard time doing this sort of thing under test conditions like this), had I put my mother up in a tree (so to speak!), her reaction would have been much stronger. Because she would have felt that she had done the impossible. And as a result, I suspect she would have experienced profound mystery and entertainment instead of just an ego boost! A psychic performer implies, "Look how I can use my amazing paranormal abilities to telepathically read your mind." A next-generation mentalist states, "Look how I can use my amazing skills in non-verbal communication, linguistic deception, and hypnosis to figure out what you are thinking." But perhaps a true purveyor of mystery says simply, "Want to see something impossible? Watch this." And the audience is left to draw their own conclusions. In the end, what's more mysterious? What's more entertaining? I know my answer. (Well, this week!) Mike
"The answer is never the answer. What's really interesting is the mystery." - Ken Kesey
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Photofnish Regular user Issaquah, WA 140 Posts |
Mike: Great post. Well said.
I'm in the Seattle area too -- in Issaquah, to be exact. If you ever want to get together for a beer or coffee and talk mentalism, give me a holler. The same goes for anyone in the Seattle area. I know magicians have clubs they attend, but I'm guessing it's a little harder for mentalists to make person-to-person connections. -Lance |
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