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Shikanominarazu Loyal user 263 Posts 
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Hello all,
I seem to recall reading a story a while back about a cheat who had been killed after being caught, and with his dying breath asked his co-conspirators to remove his holdout so that it wouldn't be known that he had used one. I thought that I had read it in the Annotated Erdnase and that the reference was to Robert-Houdin's Cardsharpers Exposed, but this appears to be incorrect. I also checked Sharps and Flats and can't find the story on a quick search. Does anyone remember this? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 15717 Posts
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No, but it sounds like some patter from a card trick.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Shikanominarazu Loyal user 263 Posts
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For those curious, I found the original, and it's in Robert-Houdin's autobiography.
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1760 Posts
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Sharps and Flats contains a woodblock print of Kepplinger being frisked and his holdout discovered. He wasn't killed. According to legend, his opponents all demanded he build one for each of them. Does the Robert-Houdin story predate that or come after?
Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Shikanominarazu Loyal user 263 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 14, 2024, JasonEngland wrote: A month late, but to answer you: the Kepplinger story apparently took place in 1888 (as per Maskelyne). Robert-Houdin's Autobiography was published in 1858 and the story in question was supposed to have taken places several decades before. The story is related by Torrini to Rovbert-Houdin and supposedly takes place some twenty years before the conversation, so I'd guess 1800-1805ish?. The name of the unfortunate gambler is Zilbermann. |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1760 Posts
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Good to know - thank you. I wasn't near my library at the time I asked so I couldn't check the Robert-Houdin book myself.
Again, thank you. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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ThomasJ Inner circle Chicago 1079 Posts
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I stumbled on this thread and got intrigued.
I found an article S. H. Sharpe wrote in the Sept. - Oct 1959 issue of Magic Circular titled “Torrini - According to Robert-Houdin”. The article attempts to create a timeline of Torrini’s life. It puts Zilbermann’s death around 1796. Very interesting read. |
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chappy Special user 774 Posts
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FARO FUNDAMENTALS, DETAILS OF DECEPTION and THE DEVIL'S STAIRCASE at www.thedevilsstaircase.com
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Houdin's son or grandson admitted that Torrini was a made up character.
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 552 Posts
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Indeed, Torrini is a fictional character as well as Charlier is, he never existed.
Superbrain * Magic Squares for the Mental Entertainer * Consultancy for Magic Squares
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1760 Posts
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What's the evidence for the claim that Charlier is a made up character?
Prof. Hoffmann, M. H. Spielmann, Charles Bertram, W. E. Robinson, Robert Hellis, John Ramsay, and others all claim to have met him and he apparently gave a single performance in London on Jan 25th, 1882 (the program for this performance still exists). Spielmann claimed as late as 1912 to have dozens of letters from him, all written with a fine-tipped pencil. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 552 Posts
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Dr. Hans-Christian Solka: "Mythos Charlier - Fakt oder Fake?," pp.116-138 in Magischer Zirkel Hamburg (Hrsg.): "Verschiedenes fuer Liebhaber der Gaukeltasche - Hamburgisches und magische Miszellen aus Anlass zweier Jubiläen (111 Jahre Magischer Zirkel Hamburg & 30. Symposium zur Geschichte der Zauberkunst vom 13.-16.04.2023 in Hamburg);" Hamburg, 2023
Superbrain * Magic Squares for the Mental Entertainer * Consultancy for Magic Squares
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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The British Magic Circle has in its possession a marked deck made by Charlier, yes?
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 552 Posts
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Charlier seems to be a myth.
There is much evidence that none of the people's claims are true. The protagonists' reasons for their claims are explained in detail (132 sources) in the above-mentioned article. Unfortunately, Charlier did not appear contrary to the program booklet in the mentioned benefit show.
Superbrain * Magic Squares for the Mental Entertainer * Consultancy for Magic Squares
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Open up my death star of a history book - "A History of The Art of Conjuring" (German author, cough,cough).
And, there ya go Charlier in detail. Page 75-77 volume two. Wait, you do not have this book? GO HERE: https://conjuringarts.org/2023/11/a-hist......um-opus/ I purchased two sets. THE BEST! |
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Dr. Hans-Christian Solka AKA - hcs, I am having tough time finding your article. Is possible to give a link? I love to read it.
Thank you. |
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hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 552 Posts
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Quote:
On May 25, 2025, Jerry wrote: I even own the German original from 1939 to 1961 in 108 chapters. About Torrini Volkmann judged in chapter 39: "I have reproduced Torrini's fate according to Robert-Houdin's recollections, although I cannot help but have strong doubts. ... It is not impossible that Robert-Houdin let his imagination take the reins here. After all, he supposedly came to the art of magic through Torrini and described him as his teacher."
Superbrain * Magic Squares for the Mental Entertainer * Consultancy for Magic Squares
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Chasing a Reference (5 Likes) | |
Posted: Jan 31, 2024 09:44 am 
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