|
|
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
The below video explains the PAO method on 17 objects within your house (or memory palace).
The PAO method does NOT easily allow you to know the position of the cards, it is just a method to know the sequential "next card" of the entire deck. This is the dominant method of people competing in speed memorization of a shuffled deck sequence. There are some magic tricks that can be done using the PAO method, but it takes about a month just to do all the preliminary memorization of all the cards (Person, Action, Object for each card). IMO the PAO method is NOT for magicians who also want to know the position of every card within a deck. There are simpler, faster learning, and more permanent learning memorization methods to memorize the positions of every card. Some of these methods can be learned easily in 3 days or less. Here is a simpler method: The visual "number on face" method: on a practice deck put it in the stack order that you want to memorize and then use a sharpie pen to permanently write the position number on the face of each card and draw a unique shape around that number or write the number in a strange way that is unique on each card. Then visually associate the card indicie and suit with the weirdly/uniquely written number. Practice for two or three days and then you will know the whole stack. Whenever you see a playing card your brain should automatically also instantly see the position number that was written on your practice deck. Refresh your memory every day and week by mentally going through all 52 position numbers and saying the associated card and vice versa by mentally going through all the cards and saying the associated position number. In contrast the PAO method is primarily a speed competition method to memorize the SEQUENCE (not the position numbers) of a freshly shuffled deck. The PAO YouTube video link is below: https://youtu.be/yevxvTbUa4s?si=BGOV3ECoalMSrFcF There is a way to use the PAO method to get the position of every card by mentally numbering each piece of furniture in your memory palace with a value of 0 through 16 and then multiply it by the constant value of 3 and then add the card's one through three position. Or better yet just memorize the "three" multiple value on each piece of furniture. ie: 0, 3, 6, 9 etc. This could be beneficial to a magician who is using a shuffled deck. But imo using a pre-memorized deck and to know card positions the visual "number on face" method is so much easier than PAO with furniture. I still use some mnemonic stories for some of the cards on my "Dual deBruijn" stack but at performance time the visual "number on face" method is the fastest (instant) method for me to recall. I had the stack card positions totally memorized in 3 days and I am 80 years old and according to my neurologist I have mild cognitive impairment. |
hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 521 Posts |
Quote: Sorry, I respectfully disagree.
On Feb 17, 2024, glowball wrote: Quote: I agree. The position number is not required for "Speed Cards".
...IMO the PAO method is NOT for magicians who also want to know the position of every card within a deck. ... |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
I was trying to reflect what Ron White said in the below video:
https://youtu.be/yevxvTbUa4s?si=BGOV3ECoalMSrFcF At the 8:14 mark Ron White (former USA speed champion) says that the PAO system is "what most of the top memorizers use". But this video is 5 years old so my statement could be wrong. To hcs: is there a new dominant system that speed memorizers are now using? |
hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 521 Posts |
Many successful memory athletes use many variations of 2-card systems (card pairs). These systems work with mnemonic pegs for one pair of cards each, which are stored on 26 route points.
These combinations are difficult to learn. They can include 52x52 CardxCard (2704 images, or two times 1302 paired images, or … ), or 4x4 SuitxSuit plus 13x13 value combinations translated with phonetic code into one peg and work with different sized routes/wardrobes/memory palaces. For magicians, it would be sufficient to learn four themes for suit (for example, nature, humans, court-jail-church, circus), 4x13 terms for value and suit-theme (example: 2S - a swan, 8C - handcuffs, etc.), and 52 route points. I attached my old system (in German) for the Aronson stack. (I now prefer Redford.) Click here to view/download attached file. |
hcs Special user Germany, Magdeburg 521 Posts |
Quote: IMHO, the PAO is ONE of the successful systems. But the Chinese use their own systems; some use the Pridmore system, some the Dominic system, many 2-card systems, some PO (without action), etc.
... |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
Thanks for the info! Did not know that. Very interesting. Seems like an enormous amount of time to master these advanced techniques to memorize ever-changing stacks (sequences not position numbers) in competitions, but for some people it could be beneficial.
I think for most magicians that want to master just one stack that a simple approach such as writing on the face of the practice cards coupled with mnemonic stories is much less total time invested. Thanks again for the info, I may give one of those advanced techniques a try just for fun. |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
To all:
I'm going to try a hybrid technique of memorizing my new Dual 1B stack (similar to my Dual 1A stack but the 1B stack is a little better looking). Currently I have three different crib sheets (one for main stack order, one for six cards dealt "eyes closed if red suit", one for six cards dealt mandolin pattern) to be used in conjunction with this stack therefore I am going to try to memorize the three different crib sheets by using different set of mnemonics on each crib sheet. This way I will not have to use any crib sheets (makes the performance better). My plan is to buy three different color poster boards (each poster board will be a memory palace). I will have all 52 cards laid out in the proper different order for each poster board and numbered on the face of the cards (three decks glued on the backs of each card to the different poster boards so I can see the faces to practice with). One green poster board for the main stack memorization both ways ("number to card" and "card to number"). One red poster board to memorize the binary pattern of six cards dealt and spectators to close their eyes if they have a red suit. This memorization will strictly be from a two-digit octal code to the card (there is no need to practice "card to octal number" because that will never be done). One blue poster board to memorize the binary pattern of six cards dealt and notice mandolin cards as binary zero and rider back cards as binary one. This memorization will strictly be from another two-digit octal code to the card (there is no need to practice "card to octal number" because that will never be done). Some of the memorization will be based on the visual appearance of numbers on the face of the cards but with this much different information most of the memorization will be done with mnemonic stories. First I will give a person's name (alias) to each card that relates in some way to the card. Then later I will have a mnemonic story for that alias card name to relate the appropriate two digit number to the card. Here are my alias card names in Dual 1B stack order: 01=4C Kurt Warner QB on four clubs 02=TD Sam Jones Celtic ten rings 03=KC Cop with a club 04=7D Tom Brady 7 diam rings 05=9S Black Cat 06=AS DeBellevue Ace pilot 07=QH Dolly Parton 08=2H Amelia Earhart 2 Hearts crashed in ocean 09=8S Snowman with eight shovels 10=6C Rusty Staub played with six clubs 11=JS JFK 12=5S Gary Cooper dug grave for five outlaws 13=KS Henry the 8th 14=JD Rich Pharaoh Jack Tut 15=6H Miley Cyrus has sick heart 16=5H Spice Girls 17=5C Cy Young played for 5 clubs 18=JH John Travolta 19=6S Lizzie Borden buried six people six shovels 20=QC Joyce Brothers boxing club expert 21=3S Supremes (buried three dogs with shovels) 22=8D Terminator ate diamonds 23=9C Babe Ruth has nine baseball clubs (bats) 24=AD Randy Johnson Ace baseball pitcher 25=7H Dance Moms (seven loving dancers) 26=TS Farmer with 10 shovels 27=9D Scottish crown w 9 stones 28=2C Fred Flintstone w 2 clubs 29=4H Alien stockbroker with 4 hearts 30=KH Elvis 31=6D Coach Bill Belichick 6 Diamond rings 32=JC pirate Jack Sparrow 33=7C Rat Pack played at 7 clubs 34=QD Queen Victoria 35=4D Elizabeth Taylor w 4 Diam rings 36=8H Marilyn Monroe had 8 hearts 37=5D Magic Johnson five diamond rings 38=2D Gen G Patton with 2 diamonds pistol handle 39=TC Jack Benny performed at 10 nightclubs 40=8C Goliath has 8 clubs to fight with 41=4S Pearl Bailey has 4 sapphire rings on fingers 42=3D Troy Aikman has three diamond rings 43=AH Cupid is Ace of hearts 44=7S Samurai attack with seven shovels 45=KD Harry Winston Churchill Rich King of Diamonds 46=3H Andrew's sisters 47=AC Jackie Robinson Ace with a club (bat) 48=2S Leprechaun gives two shovels to dig 49=TH Tin Man wants 10 hearts 50=QS Latifah 51=3C Igor has three lumps on head from clubs 52=9H Col. Klink no Valentines (Nein Hearts) Note that these same alias names will be used on all three poster boards. The above is the order on my green poster board but I also have a mnemonic story (not shown here) for each card on the green board to tie to the position number. I refer to these numbers as my green numbers. Feel free to use the above names to memorize a stack of your choice (put them in the correct sequence for your stack and then come up with a mnemonic story to link the position number with the alias name). Here is my green board sample of the first four cards and tying the position number to the alias card name using a mnemonic story: Kurt Warner was #1 human interest story Sam Jones Celtic great jump shot 2 points Cop car has 3 flashing lights Tom Brady yells "Four" when playing golf ... and so on. You magicians get the idea. Of course you will have different stories for your stack but you should be able to use the above 52 alias names for your cards. Note that for a few of the cards I have specific reasons for their alias name to fit my Dual 1B Stack positions but nonetheless the alias names should work fine for your stack. |
Richard Weber New user 26 Posts |
I am new to memorised deck and having fun. I have started with PAO, but am realising that to immediately go card<->number I don't have time to process a thought chain such as "Two of diamonds? Hmm. That is Bridget Bardot (since diamonds are all movie stars and 2=B, and Bridget Bardot heads a group of 3 that is in located just inside my kitchen (location 7) and which ends on 7x3=21, so 2D is 21-2=19!"
I hope that with continual practice, that sort of thinking falls away, except as a backup. Is that what people find? For about half of the cards I now have a quicker mnemonic, such as "2D reminds me of the bra Madonna wore when she was 19". "When swinging a golf club the first thing to do is to shout Four!" "7S and 7C at 37 and 47 have nice match at two prime numbers, also 7H at 41 (the prime between 37 and 47". "The California 49s also mined 10 diamonds". "2C is at 27 since it half of 4C and 27 starts the second half deck, just as 4C started the whole deck". "QS is special card (in game of hearts) and 48 is also special because it has more prime factors than any other number less than 52". And so on. The ones about prime numbers and prime factors would not appeal to everyone, but it is natural for me. "Isn't it diamond that 5x5=25 and 5D=25?" Do others do as I am doing? For those who want to memorise more than one stack, or compete at leaning a new deck order quickly, I can see that PAO could work well. But since all I want to do is to learn one stack that I can use fast then I think a hybrid may work best. I have also incorporated a bit of the face-number idea such as "5S looks like SS for sweet sixteen". I have found it very helpful to invent my own PAO and not try to use one that someone else has already published. The hearts cards, for example, can be my family, friends and colleagues. |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
Response to Richard Weber:
Yes, mnemonics can fill in the position number for the PAO stack. About half of the stack covered using mnemonics. When you get the position numbers of the other half memorized using mnemonics then you are home free. However at that point there will not be a need for the PAO system because the mnemonics take care of everything ie: "Card to position number", "Position number to card", "Next card". Therefore for most magicians I believe that PAO is a lot of unnecessary work (unless you are not doing position number tricks and are primarily going to use the stack for "next card" determination, but If that's its main use then why not just use Doug Dyment's DOA stack which looks random and its "next card" algorithm can be learned in literally 5 minutes). |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
I still believe that the two easiest methods for magicians to memorize a single stack permanently are:
1. Position numbers written in a unique way on the face of each card on a practice deck or 2. Mnemonic story for each card (needs a unique person name for each card). Use the "P" in "PAO" but no need for the "OA" (no need for the three card concept thus no need for "Object, Action"). I have two stacks memorized: 1. Aronson Stack for about 20 years 2. My Dual 1B stack (I now call it the Hamilton stack). For the Aronson stack I used the "position numbers written in a unique way" method on some cards and mnemonics method on some cards and verbal sound on a few cards (combining these three methods are a hybrid way of memorizing, I did not know about PAO and glad I didn't). For my recent Hamilton stack I used "position numbers written in a unique way" method to permanently memorize the entire stack (took about one week to have it down pat). Because of two specific tricks that I like, which involved dealing six cards, and which required a cheat sheet for octal codes, I have memorized the two cheat sheets but to do that I assigned a unique person name to each card and use mnemonics to associate the two digit octal code to the card. For the octal code cheat sheets memorization I only practice "number to card". For my Hamilton stack I made up 4 practice decks: 1. Deck with position numbers written in a unique way on the face of each card. I just go through this deck and imprint the image of the position number on each specific playing card. I rarely practice using this deck anymore because the images are so well imprinted into my memory. 2. A green back deck with the position numbers written normally on the back of each card (I shuffle this deck then practice "card to number" through the whole deck then I practice "number to card through the whole deck"). 3. A red back deck with the two digit octal code written on the back of each card (for the eyes closed if red suit trick). After shuffling this deck I practice "number to card" through the whole deck. 4. A blue back deck with the two digit octal code written on the back of each card (for the mandolin as bit zero method of six cards dealt trick). After shuffling this deck I practice "number to card" through the whole deck. For my Hamilton stack in essence has three memory palaces: 1. Green Palace (for main deck) 2. Red palace (for octals eyes closed if red suit) 3. Blue Palace (for octals mandolins bit 0) The Green Palace kind of has Loci in the sense that the position number is the Loci but mentally I just have the card image and its position number locked together as one mental image. The Red Palace and the Blue Palace are just one-way mnemonic mental indexes of "number to card" therefore I am not thinking in terms of a traditional method of pieces of furniture being Loci. For the Red and Blue Palace I do not care what the next sequential loci has in it. The red and blue palace contain octal codes that get me the first card of six cards dealt. The next Loci is meaningless for the current trick that is being performed. Note that after I know the first card of the six then I revert to the green palace for that card and then use the green palace to mentally obtain the following five cards by mentally progressing through its next five Loci. |
Divrom New user 16 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 13, 2024, Richard Weber wrote: Yeah, that type of process eventually disappears completely. After all, if I'm memorising a shuffled deck and want to do it in around 40 seconds, I simply wouldn't have time to figure everything out like that. If I was new to memory stuff, I would use the system I explained to Snowball in a separate post. Learning Mnemonica then becomes a breeze. Here's a snippet of that post: I would suggest learning a stack to anyone who asked. Convert your cards into characters in any way you choose. If you didn't want to learn 52 characters, you can use the number of the card to give you one of 13 characters and the suit to give you an action and/or object. Just make sure the 13 characters are distinct and memorable. (E.g. 10 might be Bo Derek in her famous bikini from the film 10.) The real game changer for me was simply devising 52 loci to place the cards in. Instead of devising a 52 stage journey, I suggest coming up with associations for each number and then making a location from that. I'll give some examples: 1 = the finish line of the London Marathon (1/won) 2 = a shoeshop (2 rhymes with shoe) 4 = my front door 6 = a pool hall I attend ('sticks' is too abstract) 8 = a hotdog eating contest I once entered (8/ate) 18 = a cinema 29 = a diving board, because Feb. 29th is leap day. 36 = the Olympic podium Jesse Owens stood on in 1936 39 = steps near me (reminds me of the 39 steps) 45 = a scene from the movie Oppenheimer (set in 1945) Now, if I think about what is taking place at location 18, I see Michael Jackson (King) hitting people (clubs) because they keep talking during a showing of the extended Thriller video. If I want to know where the 5 of hearts is, I can immediately see a pregnant lady (5) eating so many hotdogs that her heart explodes. |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
To the memorized deck newbies:
I do not want to leave the impression that you have to have four practice decks to do the "unique number on the face" method (which I may have left that impression). You really only need 2 practice decks to memorize a popular stack using the "unique number on the face" method. Let's say you're trying to memorize the Tamariz Mnemonica stack: 1. Practice deck one: write the appropriate mnemonica position number on the face of each card in a unique way. Leave the backs pure. 2. Practice deck two: write the appropriate mnemonica position number on the back of each card (write the number normally). Do NOT write anything on the face of these cards. Initially you will go through practice deck one a few times to visualize the position number with the card image. Then you will use practice deck two most of the time: Go through this deck looking at the backs (looking at the position number) to master "position number to card". Then go through this same deck looking at the pure faces to master "card to position number". Of course while you are doing these practice sessions you confirm that you got each card right by looking at the other side of the card. Practice decks 3 and 4 that I mentioned in my prior post (the red palace and blue palace) were specifically for my Hamilton stack or a deBruijn based stack. None of the popular stacks are deBruijn based. Therefore you would only need practice decks one and two If you are using the "unique number on the face" method. |
glowball Special user Nashville TN 937 Posts |
When using practice deck two, be sure to shuffle it before you do your practice. Otherwise you may start remembering based on where it is rather than what it is. The practice deck two simulates a spectator naming any number or naming any card.
Keep practice deck number one in the stack order and use it to say to yourself what the next card is before revealing the next card to yourself. This is optional because if you have practice deck two mastered both ways then you can easily know the position number of the next card. However it is helpful to also quickly be able to rattle off the next cards from sequential memory rather than think "what is the next position number" each time if you're doing that type of trick. |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Comparing PAO memorization method to "Number on Face" method (4 Likes) |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.09 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |