|
|
Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
supremefiction Veteran user 316 Posts |
It appears to me--just an anecdotal observation--that the card move we call The Pass (or The Shift) has gone "off the radar" with cardicians, whereas decades ago it was among the most central & most vexing things a cardician had to be concerned with.
Perhaps this is because so many easier moves have been developed to accomplish the same things. One such item among many is Ackerman's Ultimate Gesture Cut. One inflection point was with Daryl's video set, in which he basically said "don't even bother." Looking over some old video instructions, my other observation is that there are very few passes--be honest now, no matter what the cover is-- that do not have some kind of weird tell. In particular, the dipping up and down of the clasped hands is something I find really offputting. I'd be interested in your thoughts and, in particular, if any current magicians have any really innovative work on a "new theory" pass. I think the most recent I can recall is from Akira Fujii. |
|||||||||
Sybilmagic Loyal user England 277 Posts |
Interesting post. I also remember Daryl's advice. There is a story about Michael Ammar where he asked a group of magicians to turn their backs with peripheral vision and then executed the pass many times - each time the magicians would raise their arm when he executed the pass - the lesson being that "something fishy happened".
That said, in person I have seen (or not seen) Ben Earl, Jerry Sadowitz, Darren Robinson (UK magician) and Mark Mason execute a pass under fire. Exceptional when you see it done perfectly. |
|||||||||
Sybilmagic Loyal user England 277 Posts |
I think Derren Brown also uses it in the Devil's Picturebook DVD
|
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21560 Posts |
It was an inevitability this was going to happen. The emphasis on doing things fast and simple was a trend in magic. It is a phenomenon Ronnie Coleman described in body building. “Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-@@@ weights.”
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
warren Inner circle uk 4304 Posts |
Whilst not really an answer to the question I use the pass quite often but ultimately the control I use depends on the effect I'm performing and if it fits the routine I'm performing.
|
|||||||||
JoeHohman Special user Erie 716 Posts |
I think my own pass would not hold up to a burning audience. Consequently, I don't repeat it in performance; in fact, I only use it in one pet effect, which (even though it's a pet effect) I may or may not do in performance. But I try to limit my card tricks in performance to 3. More than 3 card tricks and people will start to lose interest. (Heck, I would start to lose interest, and I like card magic!) And when I put my little three-trick card sets together, I make sure they all have a different plot and don't repeat any sleights or controls. I see a lot of magicians who do several tricks in a row that rely on the DL, or the Hindu shuffle, or the pass --- I think this is dangerous(!), but more importantly it is potentially very limiting. I feel there are so many great card tricks out in the world that you should try to avoid repetitions like this; it makes you look more versatile.
|
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21560 Posts |
I have a serious question. Why without you do a move with people burning the deck exactly? Seems like the worst time to do so.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 819 Posts |
The Pass is one of the easiest card moves, I'm not sure why someone would bother looking
for alternatives. Do it on a beat when attention isn't on your hands and you'll be fine. I hadn't realized it was out of favor. |
|||||||||
ssibal Veteran user 353 Posts |
The turnover pass is the only pass I ever use, though rarely and only when conditions permit it. The spectators can burn your hands and your motivation is way more reasonable than any classic pass variation.
|
|||||||||
Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1561 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2024, supremefiction wrote: One hundred-plus years ago there were not as many known card controls, so people heavily relied on the pass. Now we have options, so the utility of the move has declined. I know more than one person who has said they put more effort into the shift than it's worth. I'd say this has been my own experience as well. Still, there are some things that can only really be accomplished with a pass, which makes it irreplaceable. Quote:
Looking over some old video instructions, my other observation is that there are very few passes--be honest now, no matter what the cover is-- that do not have some kind of weird tell. In particular, the dipping up and down of the clasped hands is something I find really offputting. What passes have you seen that "do not have some kind of weird tell"? As far as I know, "every move is a move." The most common tell for magicians that a move is about to occur is that the hands come together. Laypeople are not as nearly as hyper-attuned to this fact, but appreciate it in an inchoate way on some level. As Ortiz (repeatedly) observes in Designing Miracles, magicians are more likely fooled by novelty than superior technique. If someone executes a pass in a way you've never seen before such that it fooled you, they probably wouldn't be able to get away with it again and again. That new-fangled pass's tell would betray itself and you'd know something is about to happen, something is happening, and/or something just happened. The well-known rule of never repeating the same trick for the same audience is battle-tested. For a layperson who has never seen a pass before, both techniques might be equally effective -- or, more likely, the classic technique is more effective.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
|||||||||
Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3703 Posts |
If your misdirection is sufficient, you can shift two elephants.
|
|||||||||
Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3703 Posts |
Jean Hugard on Expert at the Card Table by Erdnase:
"In estimating the value of this book for magicians, it must be remembered that Erdnase was a confessed gambler and for the most part he writes only in explanation of the artifices used by card cheats. "In his introduction he writes as follows: “There is a vast difference between the methods employed by the card conjuror in mystifying or amusing his audience and those practiced at the card table by the professional, as in this case the entire conduct must be in perfect harmony with the usual procedure of the game. The slightest action that appears irregular, the least effort to distract attention, or the first unnatural movement, will created suspicion; and mere suspicion will deplete the company, as no one but a simon-pure fool will knowingly play against more than ordinary chances.” "He devotes his entire attention to explaining methods for sleights with cards which can be performed secretly even when the operator’s actions are under the closest scrutiny in order to obtain the phenomenal skill that is required. A tremendous amount of practice is necessary. Even after the card cheat has acquired this skill he finds it necessary to devote several hours daily to keep his hand in. "The conditions under which magicians work are entirely different. A magician is primarily an entertainer. He has entire freedom of movement and action. He can divert the attention of his audience at will by his patter and presentation. Sleight-of-hand is for him only one of the many attributes required for success. It is, of course, necessary for him to learn certain basic sleights so that he will be able to use them smoothly bu the acme of skill prescribed by Erdnase in certain gambling sleights is not only unnecessary but it would be a complete waste of time for anyone studying to become a magician. "The question then arises: what influence has this book had on Magic and magicians? There is no doubt that some of the methods for performing some of the sleights used by magicians are improvements on procedures which were standard before the book appeared and these improvements have been generally adopted my magicians and may now be said to be standard. To that extent then, the book has value but there is no doubt that the book as a whole has had a bad effect on the art of Magic. There has arisen a certain school of magicians who have been led to the fallacy of thinking that in Magic the method is everything whereas in truth it is the effect which is everything and the methods for attaining that effect are purely secondary. In presenting a feat of Magic the magician has no need of the phenomenal skill essential to the card cheat; indeed, the simplest methods of doing the various sleights are always the best for he can devote his attention to the far more important requirements of entertaining his audience." |
|||||||||
UKNeil Loyal user 214 Posts |
Not being a card guy (all my fingers seem to have random independent thoughts!), I personally found the pass one of the easier moves to perform. As Pop suggests it is about misdirection. I think if your performance is rushed then you are going to get burned but if you slow the pace the right moment/opportunity can be put in or it will occur organically. Leaning in as you ask a question and as they answer you perform the pass.
Chamber of Wallets
http://www.chamberofwallets.com |
|||||||||
supremefiction Veteran user 316 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2024, Cain wrote: In general, the "protected position" with both hands covering the deck looks shady. In general, "finger flutter" is a challenge. In general, the covering actions--riffle, dribble, tapping the deck on the table, whatever--seem contrived. |
|||||||||
Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1561 Posts |
Quote:
On May 21, 2024, supremefiction wrote: OK, but my question was about the passes you've witnessed that do not have some kind of weird tell. You said these are "very few," so it would be instructive to learn who/what has defeated these tells.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
|||||||||
Ed Oschmann Inner circle Lake Worth FL 1038 Posts |
The spread pass comes pretty darn close.to eliminating most tells associated with the pass. You will notice that the deck turns to a perpendicular position eliminating the unfortunate angles when viewed from the right side. I posted this video last month in regards to palming. I use an idea I learned from Giobbi about screening the front so it can be viewed straight on.
The benefit is there ate no awkward pauses or "dips". Just one fluid movement. https://youtu.be/vgTaCFBSEH4?si=iU4z-6G_PIon5AYe |
|||||||||
M / Trick or Die New user 59 Posts |
I've used Dribble Pass for 15 years now. Seems to work even if they're looking at the cards. Backstage Pass (I think, I learned it from Greogry Wilson's DVD more than ten years ago) seems to do the trick also.
|
|||||||||
Motor City Special user Metro Detroit Area 593 Posts |
Ed, Your procedure looked very nice.
|
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21560 Posts |
Try doing it when nobody is looking. I’ve found that far easier to accomplish. Your mileage may vary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Magic Pierre Loyal user 214 Posts |
I’m utter balls at the Pass, and yet I did it for a friend of mine who is also an amateur magician and he completely missed it. I also did a very short ambitious card for a young teenager once who cottoned to the DL, and told me so, but when I repeated it but used the pass her jaw hit the floor. Again, I’m balls at it, but in both cases I made the move on an off beat while the spec’s attention was on my face and not my hands. So I’m with Pop: with misdirection you can pass two elephants. Or, as Dustin Marks said “There are no perfect moves, only perfect times”.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Thoughts on the Pass? (8 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page 1~2 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |