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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1579 Posts 
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Readers seem like a natural step with a memorized deck (no more bottom glimpses!). Currently, I only mark two cards in my stack, but I've toyed with some ideas short of a full deck (e.g., marking the Queens, marking every fifth card). I suspect most of us have played around with marked decks, but ultimately decided the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I am interested in learning opinions from stack users about why they use one or choose not to use one.
If I were a right-handed Mnemonica-user, then I probably would have experimented with various marketed decks available. Maybe I would have realized, "Hey, this is actually a useful tool." As it stands, I'm a lefty non-Mnemonica user resistant to depending upon products that I cannot personally re-create, so I never got there. Am I missing out?
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1362 Posts
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I long time ago I read a post on the Cafe from someone who said they always use marked decks because it is kind of like having a safety net in case of problems. This makes a lot of sense to me. Especially if combined with a stack - it means that the estimate-cut-glimpse technique no longer requires a glimpse to check exactly where you are.
I buy the Penguin marked decks. They work out about $5 per deck if you buy a brick; the markings are easily readable; AND they are marked both sides for lefties as well as righties. Being a non-Mnemonica user is irrelevant. I use the Joyal stack. I know the stack perfectly so why would I need the stack numbers??? I just need to know the card's value and suit, and I automatically know its stack number. As for products you can't re-create - do you make your own playing cards? I doubt it! So yes, I would say you are definitely missing out on a useful tool. The only way to find out is to buy some and see how you like them. |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2537 Posts
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It's not at all difficult to mark your own cards, thus freeing you from reliance on the availability (and cost) of someone else's marking system. It also means that if you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, and your luggage hasn't made it yet, you can still create a deceptive marked deck for tonight's performance.
I've published my own technique for doing this, but there are plenty of alternatives on the market.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1579 Posts
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Quote:
On May 28, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: Luke Jermay's Marksman Deck contains information regarding the sum value of a cut off packet (along with the number of red cards). It sounds like an interesting effect, but it's exclusively available to Mnemonica users (unless one personally marks a deck, or can find a motivated way to use a crib sheet, or can use a combination of memory and math skills). Quote:
I just need to know the card's value and suit, and I automatically know its stack number. I just ordered a pack. I thought they came in Mnemonica order, but it looks like there are options between "Standard" and Mnenomica. I might as well see how I fare with bold markings before deciding if I want to mark them myself. Thanks. Quote:
As for products you can't re-create - do you make your own playing cards? I doubt it! I said I'm "resistant," not absolutely opposed. Moreover, there's no reason to believe Bicycle Rider Backs will not be commercially available in my lifetime. Even if the UPCC went bankrupt, the brand itself would be sold off and the cards reproduced.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1579 Posts
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Quote:
On May 28, 2024, ddyment wrote: Thanks, Doug. The most updated version appears exclusively in Calculated Thoughts?
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2537 Posts
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Cain asked:
Quote:
... The most updated version appears exclusively in Calculated Thoughts? Yup.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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WalterPlinge Elite user 449 Posts
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I'm just a hobbyist, so you may take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I have a marked deck from when I was a kid. It came from an Adams magic set. I think you can still buy it. I don't think I ever used it. It was complicated for a kid. Years later, I learned its system, but again never tried it. I kinda thought this was more a curio than anything else. The cards had unsual backs so it looked like a trick deck. Maybe about 10 or 15 years ago, I bought the Boris Wild marked deck at a local magic store. Bicycle backs. I bought it as a curio and for fun. I think I did a few tricks for my kids, and that was it. My opinion on marked decks, and any trick decks for that matter, are that they are for fun to play around with. I have many trick decks, including the usual ones -- Svengali, Invisible, Brainwave, Stripper, etc. I'm kind of surpised that pros use any of them, not that there's anything wrong with that. My main point is: there are so many wonderful, stunning, jaw-dropping card tricks that don't need gaffed cards or full decks -- so why bother? Miracles can be done with FASDIU. Today, in the year 2024, isn't FASDIU magic the most impressive? I did some simple tricks once for a few friends, with my own deck, and I got comments like, "Are these cards marked or something?" Thankfully, they weren't. I guess I should have taken the comment as a compliment, then, lol. Also, today, in the year 2024, most people don't seem to have a decent deck handy, so you have to bring your own lest you want to do tricks with a bridge-sized deck, missing cards, with pictures of an airplane on the backs. (But I guess you could really impress with those!) Anyway, even if you bring your own deck, it's nice to have it be examinable.
"Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!"
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WalterPlinge Elite user 449 Posts
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It is Deland's Automatic Marked Deck that I've had for about 50 years now. It's also a stripper deck.
If you give it the "riffle" test, you can see it is "animated." https://magicmakersinc.com/products/dela......HQHtcnkr
"Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!"
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2076 Posts
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I only use marked decks. Penguin marked decks are now $5 and are printed on thinner elite Bicycle stock for better handling. I've never had a middle school student, adult spectator, or magician, ever notice that I performed with marked cards. I mean how often is anyone studying the backs and even if they did under pressure in front of everyone with no idea what they are looking at, would they have much of a chance of finding any mark.
You don't need to use marked cards of course. There are plenty of effects that they are not even useful for. But after performing an effect or two that has nothing to do with marked cards, you can perform some absolute miracles. My latest is goes like this. Have a spectator touch a card, you sure you want that one, I didn't influence you, did I? (read marked card here) From this point on I turn my head have them look it, remember it, ask them to put it back while my head is turned and I'm dribbling the cards. Tell them to put it back anywhere, act like they put it back to early but that's all right. Then give them the cards to shuffle. Take the cards back and ask the spectator if they have ever had their minds read by a deck of cards. It's kinda tricky and might not work but lets try. Think of the card, I put the deck up to their head and pretend the pull the thought of card out. The cards have read your mind and will show me your card, I just have to find it. Find their card and cut it to the top of the deck, all the while acting not sure. Okay I think I got it. Their card is actually on the top of the deck now. Magician double lifts to show and indifferent card but of course acts like it should be the card. Well darn, all right we know it's not this card but I've got 51 more chances to get it right. Deal off top card that is the spectator's chosen card. That's all right, I don't need 51 chances, I'm just going to have to suck it out of your head. Think of your card, just the card... Now riffle the cards at their forehead so they feel the air from the cards. The cards have it, they know your card! Now I just point to the one card that was dealt off as the "wrong" card. I point the deck at it and riffle hard so the card flutters on the table. I get excited, did you see it move? Check it out! The spectator will now turn over their chosen card and will have no clue. Food for thought... Quote: On Nov 3, 2024, WalterPlinge wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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curtiswallen Regular user NY 139 Posts
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Quote:
On May 28, 2024, Nikodemus wrote: I can't remember where I read/heard it, but somewhat recently I came across a similar note about the "safety net." Something along the lines of: more pros than you think always use marked cards, even if they aren't necessary for an effect, because it's always nice to have that safety net and be able to stay one ahead if you need to think on your feet and pivot to an out for some reason. I still can't bring myself to use them because I really don't like the design personally, but the fact that every Phoenix deck is marked (and has a one-way design on the front AND back) has almost been enough for me to pick up a couple decks. |
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Nikodemus Inner circle 1362 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2024, curtiswallen wrote: I'm pretty sure this isn't true |
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David Numen Inner circle 2100 Posts
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No it’s not true, all Phoenix decks are one way but they are not marked. The marked decks are much more expensive than their normal decks.
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curtiswallen Regular user NY 139 Posts
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I had heard all Phoenix decks are marked, but since I'd never owned a deck myself I had never actually confirmed it. I stopped by Tannen's today and picked up a normal "Classic Index" Phoenix deck for $5.85 and it is in fact marked. Every card is marked on its back to indicate its suit and value.
The markings are much more subtle than the more expensive advertised "reader" marked decks, but I can confirm that they are marked. Also cute how they include the Aronson/Mnemonica crib sheets in lieu of advertising cards. I did not know about that. |
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The Great Dave Loyal user My Wife said "It's Me or that Stupid Magic Website!" this many times: 26, 234 Posts
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Marked Cards are fun. Like WalterPlinge above, I started out at age 5 with the DeLand Automatic Deck from SS Adams. They are still made and the current owner is Magic Makers. These were designed by an Engraver for the US Mint in 1912 who made other decks also. The Automatic has locations for counting to other cards, what the card on the bottom is, top is, what the face of the current card is. This is a stacked deck which is how you can do all this. It is also a Stripper Deck.
Penguin Marked Cards are very easy to read and $5 a deck. The Daredevil Deck by Card-Shark has markings that are 1 inch tall and can be read in a flash at a distance, but the spec cannot see them unless they know where to look. The closer you look, the more difficult the marks are to see. Card-Shark points out that all their Phoenix Decks are marked. They are also very easy to read. If you want to get into very esoteric marked cards, check out Playing Card Decks. They have a section on Marked Cards that feature some of the most unique and challenging decks available. The Butterfly Deck is outstanding and is available at several Dealers. This is an Edge Marked Deck. The Secret of the Butterflies e-book or hardcover book is available if you wish to get it. It goes over the marking system and has quite a few routines to use as well. Cohorts are a marked deck that is a Casino design. Very easy to read, classy style, and excellent handling. Books and other sources are available for Marked Cards. The best book is easily Hidden in Plain Sight by Kirk Charles (2005). The Ultimate Marked Deck Companion Book is a 150 page book that has great tricks that can be used for any marked deck. One great free resource worth knowing about: DMC Elites published a few "Passports" with great routines and excellent presentational ideas for marked decks. They have now made these available as free downloads from their website. Here are two articles that will help introduce the Marked Cards available today and resources: https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-i......le-decks https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-i......s-part-1 There are opinions available that argue for not using Marked Cards. To each his own. Broaden your horizons and learn the World of Marked Cards. Enjoy!
Academy of Magical Arts
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Whoops, wrong hat ... |
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WalterPlinge Elite user 449 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2024, The Great Dave wrote: Has anyone tried the DeLand Deck to actually fool anyone but kids, though?
"Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!"
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The Great Dave Loyal user My Wife said "It's Me or that Stupid Magic Website!" this many times: 26, 234 Posts
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Walter,
You know I am going to say Yes to your "actually fool anyone but kids, though" question. You baited me into it. I have been having fun with the DeLand Automatic for 65 years. I can wrangle it through all features. If you go through each feature as a show off presentation, you have the best card show in your hands you could want. Specs don't look at the backs of the cards. And even if they did, they would not see anything. Trust the Deck. It has stood the Test of Time. Enjoy!
Academy of Magical Arts
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Whoops, wrong hat ... |
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WalterPlinge Elite user 449 Posts
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That's good to know. Like I said, I've only had it for 50 years, so I haven't had a chance to try it on anyone yet.
50 years ago, more people were playing card games with real cards (not on their phones), so today those cards would be less suspect. But I guess the Casinos are still going strong, but they don't use Bicycle cards anyway. And most people play the slots, right?
That video Magic Makers produced is very impressive -- looks like a movie. The effect is pretty good, too, but makes it obvious that it's a stripper deck. But maybe it's just me because I got my first stripper deck about 50 years ago, too! About 15 years ago, I was at Fantasma Magic in Manhattan, and Magick Balay was the salesman. He mentioned that people get suspicious when the cards don't have Bicycle backs. He wasn't talking specifically about marked decks, though.
"Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!"
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The Great Dave Loyal user My Wife said "It's Me or that Stupid Magic Website!" this many times: 26, 234 Posts
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Walter,
I was wondering if you were going to bring up the old "I it ain't Bikes, then ..." saying. That is a well known myth that was proven not to be true a long time ago. But, it keeps coming up. The facts is different from the sayin' comes to mind at the same. Trust the cards. They take care of themselves.
Academy of Magical Arts
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Whoops, wrong hat ... |
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WalterPlinge Elite user 449 Posts
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Tally-Ho????? and Bee decks are OK too, I guess.
Well, I was just quoting Magick Balay. It looks like he opened up a new magic shop in Manhattan now. Only a few blocks from Tannen's! https://dontblinknyc.com/ Last time I was in Tannen's was about 30 years ago! Once at Fantasma Simon Lovell was there, too, and we chatted a bit. Nice guy -- he was just hanging out. I went to Flosso-Hornman once, too, and Jack Flosso sold me a few tricks. The place was a mess -- stuff everywhere. Then when he sold it is was a few towns away from me here in Jersey -- called Martinkas. They closed a few years ago, though. I went there a lot with my kids -- and often without my kids! The guy who owned it used to work for I.B.M. -- the tech company -- not the magician's brotherhood. In my whole life, I don't think I ever walked out of a magic shop without buying something! "Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!" With apologies to Maxwell Smart.
"Of course, it's the old marked deck trick!"
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The Great Dave Loyal user My Wife said "It's Me or that Stupid Magic Website!" this many times: 26, 234 Posts
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Walter,
You are one lucky guy to have had the opportunities you did. My mom took me to L.L.Ireland's Magic Company on Lincoln Ave. in Chicago before Jay passed away and it was renamed Magic, Inc. Frances Ireland sold us a Fraidy Cat Rabbit for $14. I still have it, of course, but more importantly I remember the shop and Frances like it was yesterday. I believe I was six years old at the time. I had a Magic, Inc. catalog every other year or so until high school. I started doing shows at about 12 and did my last Birthday Party my Senior year in HS. The catalog was famous in itself and I had more than one acquaintance who had one. It was a real badge of honor to be in the group. By that time I had been slinging my DeLand's Automatics every chance I got. I read the instructions so many times I had to stop folding them up for fear of tearing them. And yes, I still have the original deck in it's box with the dog eared instruction sheet. And with the grimy edges on the cards. I wash my hands now before I handle cards. Mom kept my Magic Kit and all of my tricks in the attic until after college. I keep it in the original box in a storage trunk with the exception of my folding opera hat, the Deland's, Cups and Balls, and the Fraidy Cat Rabbit which are all in a Curio Cabinet in a hallway with other pieces from my collection. On those Automatics. I bought newer decks of Automatics over the years, wearing them out as I went along and sometimes giving decks away. Eventually, SS Adams sold to Magic Makers and my newer decks showed up as made by USPCC. I could immediately tell the difference in handling because the paper had changed. The originals were printed in Belgium and had Printed In Belgium on the outside of the box. They were so obviously Cartamundi made cards. I got on the phone and called around to as many magic dealers as was needed to ask them to search their inventories for DeLand Automatic Playing Cards with Printed In Belgium on the outside of the box to get about two dozen decks. I never want to run out. Too much hand eye, muscle memory, memorization, patter, and nostalgia to give up. I went through a lapse with Magic until my early 30's when I came back strong and well financed enough to buy all of Hank Lee's inventory if I wished. I curated and have a collection and the Basement Theatre with lighting, sound, seats and a stage just like others do. My latest acquisition is PITATA Hotel Prediction which is flawless and jaw dropping for the Specs. Almost as good as cut and restored rope! I thrive on that kind of stuff. My other acquisitions this year are Reverse Logic by Joshua Jay (upgrade the watches) and a bag of two dozen sponge Clown Noses from Amazon. I carry one nose in my pocket and put it on when no one is looking during conversations. Whey they look up and I have the nose on there is a splendid surreal moment that breaks up any serious talk. Then I give away two or three noses that are in another pocket to anyone who wants one. There is a caution to the noses, however. I have discovered through trial and error that toddlers and primary school kids can sometimes be terrified by clown faces, so don't push it. Stick to adults. And finally Walter, Trust the Cards. They take care of themselves. It's Magic. Dave
Academy of Magical Arts
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Whoops, wrong hat ... |
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Posted: May 27, 2024 11:11 pm 
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