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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts 
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On Jun 25, 2024, 1tepa1 wrote: Oh no you absolutely do not. You make excuses and go round and round, intentionally misinterpret what is said and just want to have circular discussions. If you don’t think it is impossible in the first place then don’t do it. Funny it worked for Eddie Fecter for a long long time and everyone seemed to believe it was impossible. Maybe you have higher standards. That is cool. I am just not going to be part of it any more. You do it every time.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1330 Posts
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On Jun 25, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: There is a difference between listening and being convinced by what you listen to. Just because I don't immediately agree with no doubts with what I listen to doesn't mean I don't hear what is said. Im sure it worked for Eddie Fechter just fine as it works for many others. The double undercut as a control after a card was returned to the deck also worked for Eddie Fechter. Eddie also looked through the deck arranging setups while sitting down at a table with people in between one trick and another. He used a move to reverse a card that would not look great if filmed with a camera burning his hands etc. He did a version of Collins aces where the aces dissapear from small packets that uses an end grip when dealing cards down to show the card is gone. Which I think would be something you would critique as being a weird and suspicious way to handle the cards and not natural. I am not sure that all the things Eddie did always made people think he was not doing anything finicky or weird but it was entertaining and he was often able to still surprise people so it didn't matter. |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1330 Posts
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Since you speak highly of the multiple selection plot and like the riffle method, I will give it a chance and see if it works for me.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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Ok button line is I’m sick you you cherry picking sentences to make your own point. You do this almost every time.
You have taken an inherently boring effect and added considerably more boredom. Congratulations. You also flashed the “lucky card” and somehow doing think people will remember. I prefer my audiences not to have to blink every time I want to do a move. Maybe try doing magic for an audience instead of a camera. Obviously you are quite happy with the job you have done. So what more needs to be said?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1330 Posts
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Ok button line is I’m sick you you cherry picking sentences to make your own point. You do this almost every time. I know you don't like it and I know what you think of it but I don't agree with that characterisation. Quote:
You have taken an inherently boring effect and added considerably more boredom. Congratulations. I knew what you thought about the trick after your first comment. That is why I tried to talk to you about other things, things you do like and understand why those things meet your requirements. Because believe it or not I do actually value what you think and am trying to learn. Quote:
Maybe try doing magic for an audience instead of a camera. I do, but like I said earlier the type of effects I do for people are often very different from what I create for my own amusement. I cant do most of the type of effects I do for people on camera in the first place because they require a spectator. Quote:
Obviously you are quite happy with the job you have done. So what more needs to be said? Depends what you mean by happy. I liked the creative process of coming up with the effect but I don't think its that great in itself. Its one of those "do it because I thought about it and because I could". |
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The Darkness New user Hong Kong 14 Posts
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Tricks like this are unbelievably boring. It's too procedural and the presentation did not help at all. There is nothing impressive or jaw-dropping about it.
Every time someone does this kind of tricks, I either roll my eyes or just leave. |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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Warning! Long rambling post ahead! Proceed at your own risk!
*** For many years, I've had a love/hate relationship with Henry Christ's Fabulous Ace Routine. The first few times that I saw it, it didn't impress me at all. It was another one of those 'adventures of the props in the magician's hands' routines, accompanied by patter along the lines of 'first, I do this, then I do that.' Boring. Then, I had the good fortune to obtain a copy of Cliff Green's Professional Card Magic. What an amazing book! Cliff Green was a performer in vaudeville, starting in the early part of the 20th century, and a close friend of Dai Vernon. The book, published in 1961, documents the actual material Cliff created and performed as well as a handful of items that were invented by his friends. Some of the material is technically difficult, but can be very effective in the right hands. (Example: Phoenix Aces. Take a look at Pop Haydn's performances to get an idea of how effective this effect can be.) Starting on page 48, Cliff Green describes the presentation and sleights for Henry Christ's Fabulous Ace Routine. (Henry Christ was another of Cliff's good friends.) I realized as I read it, that the performances that I'd witnessed were watered-down versions of this effect. The presentation was charming, and the moves were clever and well-motivated. (In particular, Cliff's original move for reversing the Seven made me smile. And I've been using it ever since then.) If you were to perform the Henry Christ Fabulous Ace Routine EXACTLY as described in Cliff Green's book, you'd be miles ahead of most magicians. For years, I have been experimenting to find the right presentation and handling. These are the challenges that I've tried to overcome when working on Henry Christ's Fabulous Ace Routine. 1. I was determined to create a presentation that's more interesting than describing the procedures that the audience can plainly see. Cliff Green's excellent presentation doesn't work for me. Discovering a presentation that would be consistent with everything else that I perform was my biggest challenge. 2. Every action in the effect should have a reason for existing beyond mere explication. 3. Every 'secret move' should be invisible to the audience. 4. The trick needs a better introductory phase, something to get the audience involved and on my side. 5. Audience members need to be participants in the procedure, not spectators. 6. The magical events need to be relocated in space so that they happen near my chest and face, not on the table. (I'm presuming that I'm standing when performing this, with a table available.) 7. The ending has to be more impossible than what came before it, but in harmony with what came before. Ideally, it should 'close the circle', making the presentation feel complete. My act is themed around Vintage Magic. I won't bore you with the details, but I solved my performance problems by using an old gag at the beginning that's consistent with who I am, a presentation that makes sense, some of Cliff Green's original handling, and an ending that marries this effect with Francis Carlyle's Card to Pocket routine. (I should post a video, but only after I've performed it many times for real audiences.)
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Markymark Inner circle 1722 Posts
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Very interesting,thank you.John Bannon's story about a competition between 4 magicians showing how they would find the aces is quite nice.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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On Jun 27, 2024, BarryFernelius wrote: So this us so still theory?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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On Jun 27, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: I’ve performed it four times, and it went well. That’s not a large enough sample to determine if it will work in the long run, but so far, so good. Hey Danny! How do you break in new material/new handlings for older material?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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In truth I don’t really do that a lot. I’ve changed audiences for 35 years, not effects.
When I do, I work it out in practice and rehearsal and drop it in the show.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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I also work things out in practice and rehearsal. It’s tough to put a new piece into the show because it has to be as good or better than the piece that it’s replacing.
I still do it anyway from time to time, because it’s a good learning experience and I find it pleasing.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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It comes to how many times you do the show.
I don’t put things in the show that please me. For me even if I dislike an effect and an audience enjoys it, them enjoying it is enough for me. My job is the audience enjoying, not me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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I've found that if I dislike an effect, somehow, some way, the audience can sense it. (I honestly don't know how.) These days, I only perform material that 'sings' to me, strong material that makes me happy. Audiences seem to be able to sense my joy, although I couldn't tell you exactly how.
Of course, your focus on your audience's enjoyment obviously works for you. In fact, I admire your discipline. I'm not one to dictate what other performers should do. We're all unique individuals, so YMMV.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21556 Posts
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I don’t ever dictate what others should or shouldn’t do.
I know what works for me and what I don’t like to watch. I also know what an audience I’m watching likes or doesn’t. Performers do as they will.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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longodi New user 6 Posts
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Do you know Michael Vincent's version of this trick?
First he does Cy Endfield's Aces for Connoisseurs to make the aces disappear and then he has a nice progressive way of revealing the aces one at a time. The climax is the last ace under a spectator's hand. I definitely think the effect would be stronger if you don't reveal them all at once. |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2559 Posts
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Michael Vincent's version is wonderful, like everything he does.
But it's not Henry Christ's Fabulous Ace Routine.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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magicfish Inner circle 7117 Posts
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The best version (for me) that I have discovered is Fab Four Revisited by J.C.Wagner.
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Posted: Jun 25, 2024 06:03 pm 
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