|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next] | ||||||||||
Paul Budd Elite user It's a shame he's only made 450 Posts 
|
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2024, Mike Powers wrote: I am with Mike here. Many years ago, I worked for a very large public school system as a Behavior Intervention Specialist. I worked alongside some BRILLIANT people. A favorite co-worker.... we would observe various classrooms together (we did LOADS of observing).....whenever he would hear a 2nd-grade teacher say, 'Good job!' to a student, because they put one book into their backpack, he would look at me and say, 'They're taking the special-ness away from it.' Teachers today are pressured to reinforce EVERY STUDENT because they brushed their teeth and kept their eyes open for 4 minutes. Your example is a bit niggly, but I am funny: The way we treat words assign value to them or robs them of value. 
His face isn't really this long in-person!
___________________________________________ Once Upon A Magician blog |
|||||||||
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
The way the word "perfect" is being used nowadays by clerks, customer service people, and others, seems to be just a fad, like starting a sentence with "so." I'd be interested in reading something about how these terms are picked up and why.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
David Todd Inner circle 2552 Posts
|
It's annoying when magicians refer to to silk handkerchiefs as "silks" when performing .
Among ourselves, referring to "silk magic" or "silks" is shop talk , to avoid having to type out two words -- silk handkerchief -- , but when performing for the public refer to these items like normal people talk, referring to them as handkerchiefs or scarves . Silk is the material they are made from, but no attention needs to be drawn to the material the handkerchief is made from. The material it is made from is not the thing itself or it's function. If you were to use a cotton handkerchief would you say: "Now I will take this cotton and insert it into this box ..." Or "Watch and I will make this polyester-blend disappear". No, of course not. No one talks like that. (so why do we ?) |
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21727 Posts
|
Oh I’ve seen more magicians than not refer to them in performance as “silks”.
And the fact that no one talks like that never stopped a magician before. Heck some still refer to a Centavo as a current form of Mexican money. They still use the words “Red hot mama”, although political correctness is taking care of that last one for us. All in all I guess performing the exact same routine with the effect same props in the exact same way is something magic as an art form suffers from in large numbers.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
Back in my teens, one summer when I was trying out a clown magic act, I referred to a silk as a silk and this little girl said, that's not a silk, it's a scarf.
Ouch.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
|
David Todd Inner circle 2552 Posts
|
Here's a bad habit I see way too frequently:
The performer refers to what he is about to perform by the marketed title. "For my next trick, I will perform the famous Zombie Ball", or "Next I will present for you my version of Levent's Long Pour Salt trick" (yes, someone really did say that!) , or the stupidest one I ever heard was "For my next trick, I present to you the Mirror Box Production". (literally the method of the effect given away in the title ... did he think anyone was fooled that the box was empty when he showed it to them ? Or was it all done with mirrors? Duh.) A lot of amateurs (especially kid magicians) do this and they need to understand this is not a great idea , because #1.) it gives off the impression that magic is just something like a toy that anyone can buy in a store. (sadly, that's sometimes exactly what it is) It doesn't create the impression that what they are about to see is a unique performance the performer is creating in front of them, it's just a box or a gimmick that the guy purchased , and related is #2.) using the marketed name of the effect is leaving a big bread crumb trail for the curious to follow by entering it into a search engine (possibly searching for it on their phone during the performance and sharing what they find with people around them). Referring to your floating sphere as a "Zombie Ball" leads the curious directly to the method . In most cases it is not necessary to give the trick a name when you perform it (and of course the phrase "And for my next trick ..." should be avoided). If you need to give the trick a name to introduce it, try to give it a unique name. I'm also not a fan of "And now I will present to you the oldest trick in magic: The Cups and Balls ..." There's no reason for that much over-used introduction. It's hackneyed. |
|||||||||
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
For me, the phrase "for my next trick" is both superfluous and offensive to magic. Might as well say "the next gadget I will demonstrate is..."
People who perform magic should create the illusion of magic, not do "tricks."
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
|
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21727 Posts
|
The problem is that the lines between professional and amateur are blurred in magic. It is intentionally done to sell things to people, and in the name of “brotherhood”.
In reality I cut amateur magicians a lot of slack on these things. I don’t expect them to get it. However when I see alleged pros do it I hold them to a higher standard. The sad fact is that an embarrassing non zero number times it is pros being this lazy and it is unforgivable. While we’re at it can we as a community decide the promo picture where the magician is making that stupid face with him smiling and his mouth open and eyes squinting like he is trying really hard to go to the bathroom and can’t should be eliminated? It hasnt been original for decades. I’ll tell you until we can get past the feeling that all criticism and disagreement is hateful and attacking nothing will ever change, much less improve .
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
I don't know why criticism has become such a negative thing. When I was learning set design, critiques were a way of life in the classroom: you would turn in your project and the professor would critique it and often ask for comments or questions from students. It's how we learned what works and what doesn't before we went out into the real world and found out the hard way. And we did this with eight or ten projects (and sometimes more) every semester.
I used to get asked for input on someone's act years ago. I don't know why, but some people would send me a video and ask for comments. At one point I realized I was critiquing them from the perspective of how I would do the same routine, not from the vp of a general audience, and that's when I stopped agreeing to do it. Even today, after forty years of designing sets, I don't take it personally when someone comments on this or that. I just accept that that's how they saw it, and sometimes they do say something that didn't occur to me. I've learned a lot from that. In general, most of us designers feel that we never stop learning.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10058 Posts
|
Quote:
On Nov 13, 2024, George Ledo wrote: Exactly why I never do 'card tricks' in any setting where I might do conjuring or even mentalism. I love some card tricks, but do them only when "tricks" are expected. I have always worked to create conditions under which "must be magic" can occur in the mind of the observer. Old fashion thinking, perhaps. I have no reason to change. Coin tricks as skill demonstrations are not much better. (opinion) Kudos to workers like Danny who can mix it all together for entertainment. Just not very "magic" for me.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
|
RiffRaff Special user 686 Posts
|
Don’t say:
“I’m going to USE you.” [This is vulgar. Nobody wants to be used] “try and…” [The phrase is “try TO...”] “Effect” [Normal people don’t know what that means]. “Actually…” and then change the procedure. [This is used to cover bad trick construction]. “Here's the idea...” [If you have to explain procedure, it’s no good]. "This is a widget." [If you have to explain what something is, it's no good]. “Here's what we're gonna do…” [Just do it!] “I’m going to try something...” [Wow, I’m fixated!] Don’t suck your teeth. Don't thank the audience at the end of a trick unless they are applauding. |
|||||||||
|
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21727 Posts
|
Quote:
On Nov 14, 2024, George Ledo wrote: Exactly. It is the learning process. Putting emotion into learning never will help. It is definitely tough to hear something you put in so much time and effort into might not be everything you thought it was, but it is how we grow. The idea that someone has to couch their help in a way that doesn’t hurt someone’s “feelings” is just ridiculous.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3710 Posts
|
My grandmother, Jessamine Shumate, was a fairly well-known artist and cartographer in Virginia. My grandfather was a successful businessman and contractor who knew nothing about art, and hadn't finished high school.
She would be painting in her studio, and when grandaddy would come in to look at what she was working on--usually some abstract oil painting--he would sometimes offer criticism such as "I think it needs a little more red over there." She would get mad and toss him out of the room. She said that his advice was always wrong, and often ridiculous. On the other hand, she learned to always look at the place he pointed. It always needed something, even if his ideas of what that might be were wrong. She might need to put a triangle or something in the spot he felt needed more red. If it was "right," she learned he wouldn't have pointed to it. From then on, she looked for criticism from anyone, knowing advice was often wrong, but having the weak points pointed out for her to work on was invaluable. |
|||||||||
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
I think this is where the term "criticism" is often perceived as a negative, where "critique" isn't always. In school we used "critique" in class and "criticize" when panning something like a bad performance.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
|
Aus Inner circle Australia 1019 Posts
|
Quote:
On Nov 20, 2024, George Ledo wrote: You bring up an excellent point about the perception of criticism versus critique. The challenge of distinguishing between constructive and destructive criticism lies largely in how subjective it can be. What one person sees as helpful feedback, another might interpret as overly harsh or dismissive. Here are a few key obstacles that make this distinction difficult: 1. Emotional Filters When receiving feedback, our emotional state plays a significant role in how we interpret it. If we’re feeling vulnerable about our performance or deeply invested in a creative decision, even well-intentioned critique can feel like an attack. Conversely, when we’re confident, we might welcome the same feedback as valuable insight. 2. Tone and Delivery Sometimes, it’s not what is said but how it’s said that makes the difference. Feedback phrased bluntly can come across as destructive, even if the intention is constructive. A comment like, “That routine dragged on,” may feel cutting, while something like, “The routine has potential, but tightening the pacing could make it stronger,” is likely to be better received. 3. Personal Context The relationship between the giver and receiver matters. Feedback from someone we trust or admire often feels constructive, even when it’s critical. On the other hand, similar comments from someone we don’t know well—or who has previously been harsh—might feel destructive. 4. Public vs. Private Feedback In public settings, like forums or group discussions, feedback can feel more judgmental because it’s exposed to an audience. This can amplify feelings of defensiveness, especially if the critique wasn’t expected or feels out of place. 5. Clarity of Intent Not everyone articulates their feedback with precision. What’s meant as a suggestion might come off as a directive or, worse, a dismissal. For example, “That trick isn’t original,” might be intended as a push toward more creative thinking but could be taken as a personal jab. The Subjectivity of Perception Ultimately, the distinction between constructive and destructive criticism is in the eye of the beholder. What feels constructive to one performer might feel destructive to another, depending on their mindset, relationship with the giver, and even their past experiences with feedback. Navigating the Gray Area As a community, I think we can acknowledge that this line isn’t always clear and give each other grace on both sides. For those giving feedback, aiming for clarity and kindness can help. For those receiving it, recognizing our own biases and emotions can make a big difference. What strategies have worked for you in giving or receiving feedback? How do you ensure your intent comes across—or process feedback in a way that’s constructive for your growth? Magically Aus |
|||||||||
|
Aus Inner circle Australia 1019 Posts
|
Quote:
On Nov 13, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: You’ve hit on something that’s been a sticking point in the magic community for a long time: the blurred line between amateur and professional. Part of the problem is how loosely we throw around the term professional. In many cases, it’s applied to anyone who performs magic in exchange for money, regardless of the quality of their work or adherence to high standards in magic practice. This creates a major gray area that contributes to the very frustrations you’ve outlined. The truth is, earning a living through magic doesn’t automatically mean someone exemplifies professionalism in their craft. Professionalism, in my view, should encompass more than just financial transactions—it should reflect a commitment to originality, presentation, and respect for the art form. Unfortunately, the way the term is used often prioritizes commerce over craft, which perpetuates mediocrity and laziness, even among those claiming the title of "pro." This also helps explain why some “professionals” are guilty of what you rightly call unforgivable lapses in creativity and effort. If the bar to being labeled a professional is as low as “getting paid to do magic,” then it’s no surprise that the lines between amateur and professional are so easily blurred. And I couldn’t agree more with your take on promo pictures. The squinting, open-mouth smile pose has become a cliché that screams trying too hard rather than showcasing a magician’s unique identity. It’s a relic from an era where the same few tropes defined how magicians marketed themselves—and it’s time we collectively move past it. If we expect magic as an art form to evolve, then self-representation and branding need to evolve with it. Lastly, you’ve nailed another crucial point: the tendency to equate criticism with hate. Until we’re willing to embrace critique as a necessary part of growth—not a personal attack—we’ll remain stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. Disagreement and criticism, when done constructively, are not acts of hostility; they’re essential for progress. So maybe part of the conversation needs to be about reclaiming what it means to be a professional in magic—raising the standard for what we celebrate and what we tolerate. What are your thoughts on how we might define or encourage professionalism in a way that goes beyond simply making money? Magically Aus |
|||||||||
|
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21727 Posts
|
Well there are a few things at play here. If you look at most if not all definitions of professional, being paid is only part of the definition. In that vein I used to mow lawns when I was younger for money. I was in no way a "professional lawn care" outfit. It wouldn't matter how much equipment I bought.
I do think that once you have to look at life through the lenses of this being how you support a family it does change things DRASTICALLY. Once you are doing things for people who pay you to do so it also changes things just as drastically. I believe that once you have taken money from another and you also take the time they spend watching you owe a debt. While you can give a refund if they do not like the performance, the time can NEVER be refunded. They could literally be doing ANYTHING else and they chose to spend this time with you. You can never give that back and it is a responsibility I take quite seriously. So I do believe that there needs to be a distinction between those sorts of things. BUT that being said that is not the ONLY distinction by far! Not even close. For example if you come to an Off-Broadway magic show with a deck of cards in your pocket and hope to run through your scales with them during intermission, I don't care if you make Copperfield money, YOU ARE NOT A PROFISSIONAL. Not in any way I would ever define. Going into a restaurant where a magician is working and doing tricks for your, or worse yet other tables, is not professional no matter how much money you make. Doing tricks directly out of the instructions or other people's routines isn't professional in my book. Trying to steer a conversation to magic at all costs in a desperate hope someone will want to see a trick is not professional in my book. Those pictures we discussed are not professional. Using 100 year old hack lines, or worse yet lines out of other people's acts is not professional. If you somehow expect to get free tickets to an Off-Broadway show simply because you have an ID and know how to do a double lift that is odd behavior. Walking up to a guy who just did a show cold and just saying things you think are "in the know" so he knows you are a magician in no way makes you professional. (It looks worse when you are wrong.) This is nowhere near a comprehensive list. We can get into how you deal with customers. How one dresses. (Don't get me started on card ties.) There is just so much. I think it is funny when people talk about meeting others and say "when they find out I am a magician they ask me to see a trick". Really? Just how do they find out you are a magician in the first place? Certainly you had to tell them. If it is just a hobby and not what you do for work how would it even come up? Forcing magic on an unsuspecting public with the idea that "magic will brighten anyone's day" or some such trope that is popular amongst hobby magicians. I see guys who get paid to work who do that as "marketing" or some such thing. I do not think it is professional at all. The big problem with things like this is they are uncomfortable to talk about. Mainly because they have been normalized by the huge percentage of guys who do magic as a hobby, or alleged professionals who don't know better. They are the loudest voices because they are the most voices. These behaviors are encouraged because the majority of hobbyists agree because this is how they get to perform. The perception of the general public is obvious though. Look how magicians are portrayed in 90% of Hollywood movies and TV shows. A total joke. It only really is only a SLIGHT exaggeration of what most magicians actually are. Undeterred magicians continue the behavior. Sadly enough many who get paid to perform, engage in these exact behaviors and more. As for how to change it? First is the ability to recognize it. I mean I don't think Ed Marlo ever performed an effect for money, but I would certainly have called him a professional. I have on the other hand worked with more than one who do nothing to earn money but magic performance and would hesitate to call them professional in any way other than making money. Who is going to step up and say this sort of thing and have the conversation? Watch the hate that will pour in for just saying it like this. I will be told I am hateful and all sorts of things. The unwillingness to actually admit the differences is the problem. Also notice in no way am I putting down anyone. (Except maybe for those who are seen as "professional" and don't really live up to the word.) But as long as we refuse to admit there are differences and that there are ways we should be acting nothing will ever change. Personally I deal in deception, I don't deal in self deception. I think the problem in defining it is the biggest obstacle. It is "easy" to just say it is hobbyists who do these things, but indeed it is not true. I have seen a LOT of the hobby guys and gals who act 100% professional in every way. I have seen "professionals" who should be embarrassed by the human being they are. They should know better. There is no word in usage for armatures who act quite professional. There is a large percentage of those who do! There should be. The question is how to talk about it without anyone thinking it is about attacking them. Unless that can be overcome it will never happen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3071 Posts
|
I dunno... I don't think the problem is so much in "amateur vs. professional" as in what constitutes a "magician."
A friend of mine, a long-time corporate magical entertainer, actor, and author of a popular magic book, used to kvetch about "magicians" doing this or that or not doing this or that. And I used to bust on him and ask why he referred to all of them as "magicians," as if anyone who bought a trick or learned one from YouTube suddenly became a magician. Looking back on it, I guess my definition of a magician mostly agrees with what Danny said above in his third paragraph, but also gets into the definition of an entertainer. Many years ago, a friend and mentor (who had been a full-time magic performer practically his entire life) was developing a reputation as going on too long. He knew it and didn't agree with it, and one time said something to me about "getting up there and working until he was done." I pointed out that I didn't see it that way: I wasn't up there working for myself, I was up there working for the audience, and if they thought it was too long, well, it was too long. He thought about it and agreed with me. When I was a kid starting out in magic, I totally believed that people in general were as fascinated by magic tricks as I was, and it took me years to figure out that they weren't. It wasn't until late in my teens that I discovered showmanship and what being an entertainer was about, and that's when my whole attitude changed. The whole concept of "doing tricks" went away and I stated thinking in terms of "doing the impossible." I stopped thinking about fooling people and started thinking about entertaining them. People stopped asking me "how I did that" and started telling me how they enjoyed my act. As fate would have it, this was about the time I discovered I was more interested in the backstage end of things than the on-stage end and decided to go off and study theatrical design.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
|||||||||
|
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21727 Posts
|
It is generally true that nobody enjoys magic as much as magicians. Magicians often think the process is the most important thing in the equation of entertaining. In club meetings and environments like that it truly is entertaining to those folks. Know your audience. That is usually the problem. Guys who are in love with the process think that alone will carry them into performance. You see this in hypnotists all the time! Even more so than in magic.
The fact is that if your audience is entertained by what you are doing, your job is done. You have met your part of that agreement. The only opinion that matters is that of the audience. They do not care if you are doing the newest thing, or something that is your presentation of a 100 year old trick. They have come in to pay to be entertained. In the magic club maybe something new is more important and that is what will entertain them and presentation may not be as big a factor. The rules differ according to the audience. Just know them. It is interesting to me the ludicrous proposition of being a "magician" in the first place to anyone over the age of 12. I almost NEVER tell anyone! They come to the shows and have spent $250 to see the show so the claim holds merit within that world. Outside of that paradigm it is sort of a ridiculous claim! Even more so when it is followed with a paddle trick that everyone learned in Boy Scout camp. I mean seriously think about the claim on the face of it. An adult human being claims to be a magician. It is a contributing factor to why magicians are portrayed as they are by Hollywood. Not many other art forms I can think of have this roadblock to overcome almost immediately. Not even skeptical, but just blown past as a goofy claim. Kareoke singers just get up there. Piano players just sit down at a party and start banging the horse teeth. Guitar players the same thing. Heck a harmonica player carries it with him and man no claim just start blowing the harp. No claim needed, no "I'm a professional singer" nonsense. Just do it. Magicians doing shows at least have that to fall back on. But too often the claim is seen for what it is. A desperate attempt to get to perform. This really is the part nobody wants to admit to. Lots want to "steer the conversation to magic" but the attempt is seen through fairly easily. Again this is an uncomfortable topic almost invariably met by other magicians who read it with "everyone always asks me to see a trick when I tell them I am a magician". Again deal in deception, not self deception. The way magicians are portrayed in Hollywood is a very clear indication of how they are perceived by a large portion of the public. This hurdle will never be jumped by most magicians, and will keep the mediocrity coming at a fever pitch.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
|
Aus Inner circle Australia 1019 Posts
|
Quote:
On Nov 24, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote: I particularly want to address the third paragraph of your post, which highlights some of the social behaviors often attributed to amateur magicians. While many of these actions could be classified as unprofessional, I think it's important to recognize that, in many cases, they stem from misguided enthusiasm rather than malice. Magic, by its very nature, is a spectator art. It's meant to be shared, and for many amateurs who lack access to regular gigs, magic clubs, or other established avenues, the only way they can share their love for the art is through these often ill-conceived "social engineering" attempts. Yes, some of these methods are inappropriate, but they're often born out of a desire to connect with others and share something they're passionate about. This doesn't excuse unprofessional behaviour, but it does highlight the need for guidance and constructive mentorship within the community. Much of what you've said applies specifically to the realm of professionals in a professional setting, where the expectations of professionalism-both in conduct and performance quality-are naturally much higher. However, it raises an important question: is it reasonable to apply those same professional expectations to amateur magicians who aren't striving to operate in the professional arena? Amateurs, by definition, pursue magic for personal fulfillment rather than financial gain, and many of their actions come from a place of passion rather than an obligation to meet external standards. While unprofessional behaviour can still negatively impact how the public perceives magic, it seems unfair to hold amateurs to the same standards when their access to mentorship, opportunities, and stakes in the art differ so significantly. Instead, the focus in amateur circles might better be placed on encouraging a love for the art while gently guiding individuals toward more polished and respectful practices, rather than expecting them to adhere to standards designed for those making a livelihood from magic. A lot of this haphazardness in standards is also a reflection of the broad democratization of magic due to the advent of online resources such as downloads, YouTube tutorials, ebooks, and online magic shops. Gone are the days when entry into the art was controlled by gatekeepers like magic clubs or long-standing mentorship traditions. While this democratization has brought undeniable benefits-such as broader accessibility, inclusiveness, and the much-needed influx of women into magic-it's come at the cost of eroding some of the quality-control mechanisms that once defined the art. We're now in a world where the equation has shifted to quantity over quality rather than the reverse. This isn't to say we should return to the old, exclusionary practices of tightly-guarded secrets and closed-door clubs, but we do need to recognize the trade-offs involved. As with any change, it's not always about choosing between right and wrong but understanding the consequences of our choices. The Pandora's box of democratization has already been opened, and while we can't put the genie back in the bottle, we can strive to find a balance that honors both inclusivity and excellence. Another critical point you raise is that professionalism isn't just about one's technical ability or the pragmatic side of magic; it's also about etiquette and how one conducts themselves both on and off the stage. Unfortunately, not everyone has the advantage of a mentor or someone to guide them through these subtleties. For many amateurs, the journey involves a lot of trial and error-stumbling, picking themselves up, and learning through experience. It's an imperfect process, but one that can yield growth when coupled with constructive feedback and community support. Ultimately, I agree with your call for honest and open conversations about these distinctions. We need to foster a culture where such discussions are not seen as attacks but as opportunities for growth-both individually and collectively. By doing so, we can create a more inclusive and professional magic community that still values excellence while welcoming newcomers with open arms. Magically Aus |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » In an Efffort to Better Ourselves, which Magicians Do You Find Annoying? (33 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Sep 11, 2024 07:16 pm 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2025 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.17 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|