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magicfish Inner circle 7114 Posts 
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Quote:
On Jul 17, 2024, davidpaul$ wrote: Also described in his book- Unexplainable Acts. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7114 Posts
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John Carney has also published his added subtleties to this move.
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2045 Posts
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In rereading this, I would recommend against ending with a tap of the selection.
Once the packets are separated, there is no reason to bring them back together. Keep extending the left hand toward the spectator while your head is turned away and the other packet is being held away being pinched between the finger and thumb. This is as fair as can be, don't muddy the waters. Quote: On Jul 17, 2024, Ed Oschmann wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21505 Posts
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I am going to get heat for this but I'll try anyhow.
First actually do what the move is trying to emulate. Actually DO it for real. Find out what YOU look like doing this. THEN do whatever it takes to DUPLICATE THOSE ACTIONS. It really is how all slight of hand should be done.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2045 Posts
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No heat. I agree. So does Mark Elsdon. That is what makes Kurtz's version of the slip force so good. To quote Elsdon, "In reality, this is one of those moves that the actual thing doesn't look any worse than the thing it's purporting to be."
Quote: On Jul 19, 2024, Dannydoyle wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21505 Posts
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If I'm being honest all slight of hand should be exactly this.
I for example can not do things the way almost anyone else does. I am left handed and I have a hand the approximate size of Rhode Island. I can quite literally hide an entire poker size card in the palm of my hand with no windows at all. It fits between the base of the pinky finger and the base of the thumb. I can actually spread my fingers while I do this and NOBODY can see a thing. (Yes an advantage for palming to be sure.) BUT none of the books cover this type of situation. Put your pinky here, this or that, nope never once worked for me. I was lucky my mentor had the exact same affliction. So when I was learning, or when I continue to learn, I MUST make things look like what they would look like if I was actually doing them. I have no reference material. It is the reason I give that advice. I like to think of it as an advantage. I know what I want to accomplish. I make it look like that and if I can't, I don't do the thing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9602 Posts
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I still use a slip cut as the final phase of an old ACR I’ve done for years. A scaled back version with just 3 phases to it, but the slip cut is in the final phase to bring the card back to the top when I express to the spec that wherever they stop will be the new top of the deck. It is very convincing and appears fair. I have never worried about the little noise at times, as it only occurs for a brief moment that is always hidden behind the larger action of doing it. It has never been a problem. Sorta like not seeing something you didn’t see but it was definitely there, or something like that.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb 
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2554 Posts
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2024, magicfish wrote: Where has John Carney published his work on this move?
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Bob G Inner circle 2976 Posts
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Thanks, magicfish. Much appreciated.
Barry F., I'm not sure that this is what magicfish had in mind, but I found a handling in Carneycopia, in the description of "Slick Pip." Marlo's handling from Kabbala is described there. |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2554 Posts
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Thanks, Bob. That’s what I was looking for.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Bob G Inner circle 2976 Posts
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Glad to hear it, Barry. My pleasure.
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10991 Posts
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OLLIE MEALING HAS ONE OF THE VBEST SLIP CUT FORCES IT IS SILENT AND UN DECTTABLE IT IF CALLED THE OPEN BOOK SLIP FORCE
U CN FIND IT ON FACE BOOK TYOPE IN HIS NAME IT IS A THING OF BEAUTY |
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Bob G Inner circle 2976 Posts
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Thanks, Vinnie!
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2045 Posts
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I watched the force you recommended. That looks janky. Not only my opinion, but Elsdon mentioned that exact force as inferior, though he referenced David Williamson as the source. Sorry, but the Kurtz slip force is superior to the slip trip card force.
Quote: On Jul 25, 2024, vinsmagic wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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Francois Lagrange Veteran user Paris, France 393 Posts
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Gary Kurtz' handling is excellent but is more "delicate" and requires more practice than the basic sleight to make it look good. Also, the angles are not as forgiving as the Nate Leipzig's handling described in The Royal Road to Card Magic. The latter can be performed surrounded.
A good friend of mine on the Café has a little touch on the Leipzig handling that makes it more deceiving and with a much better line than the idiotic: "We won't use this card as we've all seen it...". Doh, the performer has deliberately shown it! A short digression: Gary Kurtz is a great sleight-of-hand artist who converted to mentalism quite a few years ago. Two decades ago, I saw his baffling and entertaining mentalism act in Paris - to this day I have absolutely no idea how he achieved his feats.
Protect me from my friends, I'll deal with my enemies.
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Kaliix Inner circle Connecticut 2045 Posts
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Sorry, but you are mistaken. Kurtz's slip force handling is as basic as sleights get. Thumb riffle, stop. Cards are truly separated at the stop. The top stock is placed perpendicular and on the bottom stock in the left hand. The right hand comes over, grabs the top stock by the front right corner, and pivots it away as the top card of the bottom stock in the right hand is offered to the spectator. Basic.
Kurtz's slip forces angles are perfect. The only bad angle is the magician's POV view. As Elsdon jokes, "It's the only bad angle, and I'm not even looking". Quote: On Jul 25, 2024, Francois Lagrange wrote:
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1330 Posts
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I don't know what I am doing wrong but when I do the Kurtz variation there is a flash from straight ahead angle, like if I am doing it to the mirror. Its a tiny flash and only happens for a fraction of a second but it is there. The other issue for me is why am I taking the packet from the front side? It requires and awkward "reach around the deck and turn the wrist to get to the front" when the easy way would be the just take the packet off by grasping the long edge that is sticking up, or the short edge that is closer to me. The least easy way to remove the top packet is to reach around and turn the wrist to grasp the front short edge.
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2554 Posts
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Kaliix describes the sleight like this:
Quote:
On Jul 25, 2024, Kaliix wrote: After trying this a few times, I'm presuming that the right fingers are on the face of the top stock and the thumb is on top. In the Marlo handling (also described in Carneycopia), the right hand takes the top packet at the right corner closest to the performer, with the thumb on the face of the top stock and the fingers on top. The Kurtz handling gives better cover, but it feels a bit awkward. I have to resist the tendency to move my right elbow too far away from my body. The Marlo handling is 'lighter', but is more difficult to do deceptively. Forcing the card to someone who's on my right side helps to cover any inaccuracies in the move.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1972 Posts
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I learnt the Kurtz handing in the late 90’s from his book, that I still have, and I experienced similar issues to François’:
Regardless of what Elsdon says, the angle problem is obvious: if you perform surrounded, people on your left and slightly behind you will see the top card flash, especially if they are taller than you. As for being basic, the move still required more practice and finesse, for me anyway, than the handling described in RRTCM. Your mileage may vary, of course. Also, with the Nate Leipzig's handling (modified or not) there’s hardly any friction whereas with Kurtz' it’s noticeable. Breaking down a move into its parts might make it appear to be a basic sleight. It may well be, but the perfect technique to create the illusion that the “selected” card comes from the middle of the deck is altogether much more than that. @1tepa1: one way to alleviate the grip awkwardness is to start the move by grabbing the vertical half as in the original sleight: thumb on the inner short edge and fingers on the outer one. Start the pivotal action and immediately let your thumb slide along the back of the top backet to end up with the Kurtz grip. I use this especially when the deck is a bit sticky. I don't experience the flash at the front. If you were to move the top half backwards by about 2mm, it might help to eliminate it. |
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1tepa1 Inner circle 1330 Posts
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I never learned (I did play around a bit with but never performed or used) any slip cut force. I use a dribble force as my main type of stand up "say stop" force. I have missed the classic force, stop forces etc many many times. I have never missed a dribble force. I don't get why more people don't use it. Its pretty much impossible to miss unless you literally make a technical mistake like lose the break or have the break at the wrong spot before starting the dribble. It feels much more fair to me than any type of riffle force. The cards drop down, they say stop, they take the card. The moment when they say stop the two piles are clearly separated, there is no feeling like you can change the position because the cards dropped down by gravity, they cant fly back upwards to change the location. Not like the riffle force where the initial "separation" of the packets is just made with your thumb at one corner but the rest of the cards are still together. The dropping of the cards also feels much more chaotic and random and harder to control than just riffling one corner.
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Posted: Jul 19, 2024 10:40 am 
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