Hi.

Im looking for a different ending in Roths "Hanging Coins" routine. I love the vanishing part of the coins. But don't like the way he makes them all appear again in the end. don't think its that magically.
I would like an ending, where you either:

Vanish the last coin as well, and just stop there.

Vanish the last coin, and make them reappear one by one to end the effect.

Any suggestions? I heard Bossi had a good handling of this effect in one of his lecture notes, but I cant find these notes.

Any help is appreciated
Daniel

David Roth's Hanging Coins has been fodder for extrapolation and exploration since 1976.

If you look in his Expert Coin Magic you can find his homage to John Ramsay.

The mechanics was used to update the original Ramsay Three Coins in the Hat trick.

The surprise endings included all the usual bits, from a repeat where you bring back the 'wrong' coins, to just producing a (something) and also leaving the coins gone.

All this was done before the big Roth book was published.

The big question is: What do you want from the trick. Kainoa has a book on Edge Grip stuff. Explore and Enjoy.

You can see a version of this at Kainoas' web site, really nice routine (Pendulum Coins I Believe). I think the web site is http://www.kainoaland.com He then explains the routine in his Coins on Edge Lecture notes, which have lots of excellent stuff in them by the way.

In my opinion the best version of the Roth's trick "Hanging Coins" is Vanni Bossi's version. The trick is designed to deceive laymen and those in the know as well.
In short:
The trick looks "quite the same" as the Roth trick. The second coin is hung up directly, Roth does a shuttle pass back and forth. Both hands are shown empty through out the entire routine, which will confuse the experts badly. The last coin is hung as well, he uses a clever sleeving.
Try to get the Vanni Bossi lecture notes "The Las Vegas Lecture, 25 World Magic Seminar 2002".

Hardi.

I have searched on many online dealers sites, but none have the Vanni Bossi lecture notes.
You know where I might can get them?

Thanks,
Daniel

I had the opportunity to see him perform the trick for more than 100 people. Some months later he did a seminar in our area, that is where I got the lecture notes.
The trick in this A5 notes is only 3 pages containing 9 photos, a bit short to understand the value of the version if you have not seen him perform.
Try vannibossi@nemo.it, or Vanni Bossi, P.O.Box 15, I-21053 Castellanza, or if you are not successful mail your postal address to me.

Michael Close has a great idea that justifies the last coin not vanishing and the reappearance of the coins.. You can find it in his new book "Closely Guarded Secrets".

John Carney lectured on this at the IBM. Combo of Hanging Coins, and Ramsey's Coins in Hat. As he said, you must be six ahead of the audience.

You can find it on his new Secrets DVD.

Great version with a logical ending.

Michael, the Ramsay trick is where David Roth took the plot for his Hanging Coins. He also was inside by the vanish sequence at the end of the Ramsay trick where he got the 'three hands' basic look for his trick. Someday I will ask him what motivated him NOT to do the Ramsay trick using EG, since he invented such a nice mechanics for it.

I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm beginning to believe that David Roth is right, and you don't need to vanish the last coin. Obviously, I'm not against subsequent sequences that include vanishing the last coin, but I don't really see any dramatic or psychological requirement for the last coin to go. You've just impossibly hung three coins in the air. So what if you have one or more left over? Who's keeping score?

Anyways, for those who don't want to vanish the last coin, but feel they need to provide a reason, there's a great approach in Bill Ducan's "Tubthumping" that not only excuses the last coin, but also makes the entire "Skyhook" premise something relevant and real.

And, being behind the times as I am, I just read "Tavern Magic No. 1" by Café regular Mike Wild. In one of his routines ("Appreciation of Silver") he has created a premise that is not only clever and engaging, but provides a wonderful excuse for any routine in which only 3 out of 4 coins are vanished.

Finally, while on the subject of "additional endings" you might want to play with this: Six coins, three silver, three copper are shown. The silvers are hung in the air. The coppers now change to silver one at a time, and the coppers produced from the air to end. Think that's straining the audience's credulity a bit? Try this: instead of hanging the coins in the air, pretend you're placing them into three different pockets. The same moves will serve. Now you've got the coin version of "Interchange".

Just wondering if anyone performs this professionally as part of his regular working repertoire for laymen. I know a lot of guys who have played with it, but don't know of anyone who uses it regularly in performance, myself included.

I absolutely fell in love with Hanging Coins when I first saw it performed, by David Roth at his lecture in the 70's in Washington, D.C. I immediately learned it and performed it with no changes in handling but I developed my own presentation involving rhyming patter, ending with a brick in my hand believe it or not. It absolutely slayed magicians (that is magicians who didn't already know the Roth routine) but wasn't particularly strong for laymen. Anyone get killer laymen responses?

Larry D.

P.S. - The strangest response I ever received when performing the effect was from David Roth himself. While working a booth at a magic convention in New York in the 70's (either IBM or SAM, I don't recall which), I started to perform (but not explain) the effect for a magician who walked up to the booth. Coincidentally, David Roth walked into the room just at that moment and watched me perform the effect. Immediately afterwards, he agnrily told the other magician to buy his notes if the magician wanted to learn the effect and then he walked off. I was insulted but then thought maybe it was a compliment that he didn't say that I butchered his effect.

Yes, I for one have used the trick in one form or another since 1976.

Though almost always used one odd coin which acted as the wand for the trick though.

Or the sponge as suggested by Curtis Kam in a letter back in 82. That presentation is a 'bounty' commercial type thing where a TINY sponge absorbs 1000 times its weight in silver. I wish I could find that letter he sent with the sketch of the coins falling out at the end of the trick. Big smile here, and a sigh.

David Roth understood the utility of the thing, and developed a handling of the other big Ramsay trick, The Cylinder and Coins, that exploits the EG work.

For the final coin, how about a maximum weight(capacity) for the hook... it can only take three coins.

For a last vanish, the simple method of sleeving shown in bobo's in which you have the coin resting on fingertip rest and you make a jump forward with your arm, can be used wonderfully for this, perform the move while reaching up to hang the coin.

The sponge a shade of the portable hole?

Nathan

Daniel,

The other source to check out would be Gary Kurtz either Trio from Unexplainable Acts book or Misty like a Dream from his Creating Magic video. He blends the hanging coins seemlessly into a longer routine which includes an appearance and vanish of three coins, a Visual Coins Across and Roths hanging coins. The coins all vanish at the end of the Hanging coins sequence.

Well worth a look.

Chris

Bob Bengal has a very clever ending in one of his lecture notes, that I have been using for years. I don't have the notes on me at the moment, but it is well worht your atten.

I think lay people are more mystified with how than why,I don't think post preformance they would say to themselves,Gee I wonder why he didn't hang the last coin? My (why) theory is if you have a beautiful woman,in a nice beautiful outfit,why on earth would any man turn her into a lion,(maybe that's just me)Vice versa would be more logical,people don't ask why, its fun.only magicians ask why when the masses are concered

E-man...Perhaps because you want her 'Lion' there beside you?......Sorry I'll go now

If you take the trouble to read the Ramsay trick, you will find what inspired David Roth, Geoff Latta, yours truly, and from that group, Gary Kurtz and later on, Chris Kenner. It's that simple. Comparing derivative routines can tell you more about the people who made the derivatives than about the classics.

Nope, the sponge is not a shade of David's Portable Hole. Tiny thing, about the size of a quarter, and about a quarter inch thick. And bright green.

Hi Johnathan,

Having problems tracing down the Ramsay stuff, is it in Ramsay Legend? If so any ideas on where to get it?
Also have you seen the Carney on Ramsay dvds? If so would this be a recommendation or is it better to get the Ramsay stuff and draw our own conclusions? Or inded a combination?

I look forward to your thoughts.
Chris

I think roth did it pretty well. although the best ending that I ever saw was when the magician pulled the coins out of his mouth on a string of fishing wire