Hi Ed,


In the thread I started about this force, you asked me to let you know what I thought of it. I've now had a chance to try it, and I can tell you that I fooled myself with it. That may not mean a lot, because I was concentrating on the details; given that distration, I was totally surprised to find that I'd turned over the force card. I don't know how you, as an experienced performer would find it, and I don't know how I, as an inexperienced performer, would find it after giving it the practice it deserves.


One thing in its favor: no noise that I could detect.


See you,


Bob

No noise has been your goal in a slip force. Sounds like step one achieved!

Indeed. A good thing.


Bob

For my taste, it has a little bit too much visual noise .
With a dribble force, they say stop and you stop. There's no other extraneous hand/finger movements.

I love the dribble force also. In my opinion one of the most underused and underappreciated forces. The cards drop down from one hand to another, or on the table, or directly on the spectators hand. There is no question of did the magician separate the packets at the right spot or etc. that can come up with the riffle force. There is no sneaky move to do at the critical moment like in normal riffle force with a break the fingers need to cover the gap that your thumb makes, or with a slip force where there is again some cover and the action of separating the packets isn't as clean and clear as with the dribble force where the force and the genuine thing looks the same. If you want to do a dribble force as cleanly as possible or use it as a force, done right, it looks exactly the same to a spectator. This isn't the case with the riffle force. If I want to do a riffle force as fairly as possible, I would do the actual separation of the two packets very slowly and cleanly, not covering the gap, not doing the typical motions that slip forces use to cover the slipping action etc.

Dribble force is even possible to do in a way that is angle proof. By holding the break at the right spot its hidden from all sides.

Interesting... I must look into the dribble force.

It occurs to me you may be doing a slip force incorrectly from what you perceive as “problems”. Done correctly none of those issues surface.

I’m sure av dribble force and if that is your comfort zone fantastic no issue. I think it can be quite convincing and I’ve seen you do it convincingly no doubt. I’m just saying you might not be doing a slip force with right if those things crop up.

I never used the slip riffle force so I don't have personal experience with having problems with it, its just perceived differences that make me favor the dribble.

Pen and Teller used to always use the riffle force in tricks for example, many of the working magicians I saw in my own country used the riffle force also so this might have influenced me to not use it because many people have then seen it being used. I have used the version with a break, but after learning the dribble force I stopped using that one also. It comes down to personal taste in the end. Perhaps one other reason is that when I was just a beginning magician, I saw my uncle show me the slip force. I have no idea where he learned it since he literally knew not a single other card trick or sleight apart from that one.

One reason for which I favor the dribble is that a dribble force looks the same as if I were to do a genuine version of a dribble to have a free selection, without needing to modify my non force handling of the dribble. With a riffle force, the force version is different from what I would do if I were to do a normal free selection using a riffle, so to make both the same I would need to modify the way I normally do the riffle to make it match the force. With a dribble force I don't need to make that modification.

I don’t understand how you can imagine issues when you have never done the thing.

The "issues" (I never used that word, I only gave reasons for why I prefer the dribble force) arent about whether the force will work or not, they are about my preferences when contrasted to the dribble force. The dribble force has things going for it that I prefer.

Stop taking the bait.

And I have seen your dribble force. I think you do it well and I believe it is quite deceptive. (I think I mentioned that but want to be very clear.) I am in no way being critical of that as a choice or of how you perform it. Unlike most moves magicians do that most people don’t, this has a nice “offhand” feel to it that seems quite casual.

I do however think that the things you are mentioning about the slip force result in maybe not doing it properly. You may have no need or desire to do it properly, and this is also perfectly fine. I’m not trying to convert you.

Ed this is actually called a discussion. Adults have them.

I'll heed my own advice.