The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » How Much Is TOO much? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
fccfp
View Profile
Special user
NJ
561 Posts

Profile of fccfp
What is the longest a silk production from a box should be? I am talking about pulling from a square circle or draw box, etc.

How many silks, total length, time? How ever you would gauge it.
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
Dave Scribner
View Profile
Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
5119 Posts

Profile of Dave Scribner
I end one of my stage shows with a square circle. It's the act I did at Bob Little's. The square circle routine is 1 1/2 minutes in length, and I produce nine 24 inch, one 36 inch silk and then one 120 ft streamer. During the routine, I show the tube and the box empty twice. I get away with that much because of my choreography and presentation, so it doesn't appear that I'm just pulling silks out of a tube. The final production of a bird cage from those silks, provides the meaning for producing them in the first place.

My square circle is a little larger than most, so it accommodates that much silk. On the other hand, when performing for children, I use a smaller version which has two round tubes instead of the box and only produce 6 18" inch silks. More than that seems to bore the kids, and I lose their attention.
Where the magic begins
Donald Dunphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
7409 Posts

Profile of Donald Dunphy
Our square circle routine is 4.5 minutes long, to music.

We produce ten 36" square silks (solid colours), three picture silks (36" clown face, 36" rabbit in hat, 12" skunk), an appearing cane, a 6' tie-dye silk (Richard Hughes made this for me!) and two rainbow silk flagstaffs (Laflin). Sometimes I also have enough time to do silk through mirror part way through. It depends on how long the applause is on certain points in the routine.

I also have another production routine with a drawer box, that I talk through, and produce ten 36" solid colour silks, a chain of twenty 18" silks, a 36" dragon picture silk, a 60' silk streamer, and 120' of gold and silver beads. And also four bouquets of flowers. This routine is about five minutes, and runs slightly longer or shorter depending on audience size (which effects applause length).

Both routines are designed with several applause points throughout them, and are in our family shows.

I never perform both routines in the same show. They are usually the finale, and the audience definitely raves about them!

- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
Silk productions are like dove, flower, egg, ball, coin, card fan, selected card and other productions. Once you have produced one the audience knows you can do it. The feat is to make it entertaining and directed toward some end (theme).

I basically believe in quitting while you are ahead. But that is easier said than done. It is even different for different audiences. Frankly, I believe that educated adults tire faster than children at repetition. We learned this in the recording industry too. The more primitive the audience, the more repetition is both acceptable and entertaining. (We used the terms “undeveloped” and “underdeveloped” to describe primitive audiences. At a given point in time they are the same level of appeal and consumption. The difference is that “undeveloped” primitive audiences continue to grow in sophistication over time while “underdeveloped” primitive audiences have stopped growing in sophistication. In the recording industry the money is in the primitive audience and much of that is terminally underdeveloped. They won’t really be seeking truly new products but restatements of existing products. It’s a cruel world! In economics the proclamation is: “The wants of the savage are few.”) Magic audiences at Mensa International will have a different capacity for repetition from one at the child’s birthday party or labor union meeting.

With that said, ride a good horse as long as he wins. Time and dynamics are probably worth more in a silk production than quantity. But when the quantity is just overwhelming, the quantity becomes dynamic and the time is well used. The real question I think we should ask is: Is this effect about what is produced or how much is produced?

Producing one silk from a flower is surprising but so is producing a laundry basket full of silks from a cigar box. Producing a cigar box full of silks from a cigar box is not very entertaining. Large loads have to be convincingly too large for the source. I feel like that needs to hit the audience quickly and then add to the already incredible quantity. If what is produced is the key effect, short duration is critical. Watch Johnny and Pam Thompson in the final production of silks before the bowling ball. It’s comically treated as if all of these silks are in my way. I’m looking for something else! It is a great use of duration by absolute professionals. To illustrate the other point, watch how fast Johnny gets on with his beautiful transparent dove production. Both are very different and very entertaining. One depends on the extension of time, and the other depends on the brevity of time. Both kill! You just can’t argue with perfection.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Regan
View Profile
Inner circle
U.S.A.
5699 Posts

Profile of Regan
Bob,

You are in the recording business?

Regan
Mister Mystery
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
Regan,

Let's not ruin the reputation of the recording industry, but yes, I spent many years in it. I think it will recover anyway.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Regan
View Profile
Inner circle
U.S.A.
5699 Posts

Profile of Regan
Wow, Bob. You're my hero! A magician and a guy that knows music!

Regan
Mister Mystery
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
Those are just two of the reasons mothers used to grab their daughters and run away when they saw me!

These guys admit that they like to play with colorful silky things too. They ask questions like "How Much Is TOO Much?" Magic isn't just for the sane! We buy perfectly good silks and "fix them". "Too Much" is a much larger number than we have now. Buy more silks!

Just having fun ...

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
fccfp
View Profile
Special user
NJ
561 Posts

Profile of fccfp
Great comments from Dave, Donald, and Bob. They will be published in my forthcoming book. Smile

Right now I do not use music in my act. I keep talking throughout most of it. My big production number is the square circle. I have a child up there with me. As the silks come out, I ask the kid to hold the fist one in one hand, put the second one in his other hand.

As the chain of silks comes out I start draping them over the kids head and shoulders. This is followed by a 30 ft. streamer. I am careful not to wind them around. I want to be able to take them back readily. The finale of the production is me pulling my hand out quickly and sucking on my finger as if something bit me. I look down into the cylinder. I get ready to lunge in, depending on reaction I may pull hand out several times.

Finally, out comes Rocky! After a very little bit of byplay, the kids immediately tell me he is fake. I vanish him in a tear apart-rabbit-vanisher. Again I may use several kids from audience. I have had volunteers hold the box. I always break the panels against an older kids upturned arms leaving the frames hanging off his arm at the end. I then have a reason for pulling them all off at once and putting them away, as I send the boy back to audience with "lets have big round of applause for "assistant’s name".

Over the fourth of July was the first time I did the chain of silks followed by the streamer. I had a cloth American Flag tied to the end of the chain for the holiday. I had just bought the silks at Bob Little's convention the week before.

I have been doing this long enough to know that no one can tell you exactly what you should/shouldn't do with certain aspects of your acts. You must decide based on personal preferences, style, and most importantly, audience’s reaction.

I think my draping of the kid with silks is enough to carry me through a large production since it is a by product of the production, not the point itself. Comments? (please be gentle) Smile
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
Bruce,

You live in NJ and I frankly don't know if David Ginn ever gets there. He will be at KIDAbra in August. Your style sounds a lot like his. There are always "decorated" kids from his productions. Then I guess "too much" is when you can't prove the kid is still under there.

Life's fun! I remember once (I hope the statute of limitations is up!) we had to break into a library to do a lecture and then wait for someone with a key to come relock it afterwards. They never asked how we got in. I'm really shocked neither of us said, "Guess how we got in?" Some audiences are never small enough.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
carbone1853
View Profile
Loyal user
RI USA
240 Posts

Profile of carbone1853
This is a very important question. Bob Sanders hit some important parts to the answer.

The key problem is that as magicians we have an appreciation for the technical aspects to a trick. For example: When we see someone produce one dove we think, "Anyone can produce one dove. Two doves are a bit harder, but no big deal. Three is getting a bit better. Four or five is getting hard but it takes a real pro to produce six or seven."

The audience sees it just the opposite. One is surprising. Two is interesting. Three proves the point. Four gets boring. So if you are going to do something more than three times in a row there had better be something other than just the productions to capture the imagination of the audience.

Let me give you a non magical example. Let’s you are in a gym and someone four feet tall comes in and claims he can dunk a basketball. You probably would not believe it. So lets say they do dunk the ball. You would be shocked and might think there was some trick to it. If they dunked a second ball you would start to believe maybe they can dunk a ball. If they dunked a third ball you would believe they can dunk a ball. If they continued to dunk you would get bored with it unless they started to embellish the dunk with flipping or additional flourishes.

Long story short, repetition does not automatically lead to more and more excitement.

Chris
cheesewrestler
View Profile
Inner circle
Chicago
1147 Posts

Profile of cheesewrestler
Two words:

Ade Duval
fccfp
View Profile
Special user
NJ
561 Posts

Profile of fccfp
Ade Duval?
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
johnpert
View Profile
Veteran user
Ontario, Canada
322 Posts

Profile of johnpert
This summer I used the routine published in MAGIC in Silly Billy's column by a German magician. I can't recall the name. In any event, several silks are produced in a comedic manner from a drumhead tube (or whatever you choose to use). I didn't produce as many silks as instructed, but the response was great.

I never thought of using pictures silks as Gr8 Donald pointed out. I like the idea of using the skunk silk which I haven't used that often.

I love dove acts and have seen plenty, and unless there is variety or something to make it different, it gets boring. (Watch the competitions at a convention, for example.) Sometimes, less is more.

J.
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
There is another category of "Too Much" that we have not mentioned. Twice I have watched fifteen minutes of a demonstration of all and every appearing, disappearing and color changing canes on the market. A cane would be put down and another picked up.

I suggest a two-cane limit! One could be cane to silks and the other silks to cane. Then I think the audience deserves something else (or a purple heart).

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Donald Dunphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Victoria, BC, Canada
7409 Posts

Profile of Donald Dunphy
Quote:
On 2004-07-27 09:13, fccfp wrote:
Right now I do not use music in my act. I keep talking throughout most of it. My big production number is the square circle. I have a child up there with me. As the silks come out, I ask the kid to hold the fist one in one hand, put the second one in his other hand.

As the chain of silks comes out I start draping them over the kids head and shoulders. This is followed by a 30 ft. streamer. I am careful not to wind them around. I want to be able to take them back readily.

...

I think my draping of the kid with silks is enough to carry me through a large production since it is a by product of the production, not the point itself. Comments? (please be gentle) Smile


fccfp -

Here's an opinion, right or wrong. This is not an attack on you, but rather a conclusion I have reached after 25 years of performing, and studying many children's and family performers.

I do not dress a child up in the silks I produce. When a performer does that, it might produce comedy moments (making them look like a human Christmas tree).

There is also the weakness that it takes the child and makes them a prop (you are, in essence, turning them into a human table). In a magic show, when I use a child volunteer, it is to "empower" them to make the magic happen in their hands, by them pulling the silk out of the bag, by them saying the magic word, by them waving the comedy magic wand.

Here is an exception to the rule of "empowering" the volunteer, but I still don't dress one single child in all the silks. I do have a routine in my birthday show for very young children, where I produce a number of silks from a genii tube as I tell a story. I pass the silks out one at a time for the children in the audience to hold for me. My reason for doing this is to involve all the children in the show. At one point when I produce a large scarf, I might drape it over the birthday child's head (as he / she is sitting down) for a laugh, and comment that they "disappeared". This is the one exception to having the children hold the scarves in a proppy sort of way, and I do it to "expand my stage" for the finale to that show. I bring the silks to them where they are sitting, rather than have them all standing up with me in the living room. Again, this is something I do for young children's birthdays (4-6 years) because at that age, they really want to help in some way, even if that means simply holding a scarf. Then I take all the scarves back at the end of the routine.

So again, my main reason for breaking the rule of not having the children hold the scarves for the sake of holding scarves is to "expand my stage" (involve more children in the routine at the birthday party).

To review, I feel that by dressing a child up in the scarves, you are just using them as an alternative to setting the silks on the table. It doesn't sound like they are making the magic happen. Could you explain more about their role in your routine? Perhaps I don't get it.

- Donald.

P.S. The square circle and the drawer box routines that I described earlier on this thread, are production routines that I perform with my wife, but with no volunteers. Silks are not "passed out", and I "expand my stage" in different ways in this show.

When I produce my silks in my family show, they are displayed and set on a table. The mound of silks appears to be larger than the prop they are produced from, and that adds to the impact of the production.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
MrMagic1
View Profile
New user
58 Posts

Profile of MrMagic1
I like to produce a lot of long silk streamers, I've always thought the more silks, the larger load, the more magical it seems. Smile
Michael Taggert
View Profile
Special user
Fredericksburg Virginia
653 Posts

Profile of Michael Taggert
Fccp and Mr magic are on to a simalr vein as I. My routine involves a MAC Jumbo SC on a custome table . I have just Done a mouth coil routine with the selected kid and am using the premise of makeing the selected kid a magician. ( they will next end the show eith me doing a levitation with them) The SC routine is that the kid takes on the roll of my assitant and I talk them through some choreography and "magical moves " to show the SC epmty and all. then as we grab some magic from the air the box is filled "to overflowing" with silks and spring flowers. The silks get flourished up into the air to create and explosion of silk that gets the audience applauding. How much silk well over thirty various sizes from 36 to 8 inch silks three streamers and what ever else I can pack into it. The magic is the production from the empty box not producing more magic. let it be a flourish and the impact is incredible.
Mike taggert
fredricksburg VA
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Believe you then that I do strange things
Bob Sanders
View Profile
Grammar Supervisor
Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
20507 Posts

Profile of Bob Sanders
This was the post for last Christmas. Have any of you changed your minds since?

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
Darkwing
View Profile
Inner circle
Nashville Tn
1845 Posts

Profile of Darkwing
I dunno, I kind of like the idea of producing all the silks I have collected over the past 20 years, now about the audience..... well that's another matter!!!! Surely they would enjoy all that yardage (LOL).
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » How Much Is TOO much? (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL